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Dear PG Music,
Please explain to me why you solely target BIAB for Windows users? Why do us Mac users get the basic features of BIAB, Why do you only make Real Band, Power Tracks, and the iOS app only for Windows users? I love BIAB, but your marketing lacks common sense. If you are going to get both OS users to buy your product, you should make sure that all the version has all the same features and software, at the same time. Again, I love BIAB, but I just wish you could be fair to both parties.
Computer: Macbook Pro, 16 inch 2021
DAWs: Pro Tools, Logic, and Maschine
plays drums, percussion, bass, steel pan, keyboard,
music producer/engineer
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No offense sir but you have to look at overall market share. There are just a lot more PC users than MAC: Older info but probably not too much different.... According to the latest numbers from NetMarketShare, the Mac now accounts for 9.57 percent of all PCs currently in use. Windows is of course still number one, with 88.77 percent of all usage. (Linux is in third, with 1.65 percent.)May 3, 2016 - https://www.thurrott.com/hardware/66933/mac-nears-10-percent-usage-share
 Steve BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory
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No offense sir but you have to look at overall market share. There are just a lot more PC users than MAC: Older info but probably not too much different.... According to the latest numbers from NetMarketShare, the Mac now accounts for 9.57 percent of all PCs currently in use. Windows is of course still number one, with 88.77 percent of all usage. (Linux is in third, with 1.65 percent.)May 3, 2016 - https://www.thurrott.com/hardware/66933/mac-nears-10-percent-usage-shareSo, what? Most of the audio industry uses Macs, and most plugins, DAWs, and virtual instruments cater to both OSs with the same features.
Last edited by Islansoul; 12/07/17 07:12 AM.
Computer: Macbook Pro, 16 inch 2021
DAWs: Pro Tools, Logic, and Maschine
plays drums, percussion, bass, steel pan, keyboard,
music producer/engineer
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And I say so what to that, IT COSTS TIME AND MONEY to write and test code for multiple OS's are you willing to fork over more money FOR BIAB for Mac's. I don't want Mac work by PG to affect or have impact on development of stuff for the PC version or have that Mac work indirectly add to cost of the PC product because folks have to be paid, overhead has to be paid, ....
There are Apple programs that exclusively Apple OS: should we I complain to Apple about Logic Pro?
Besides I don't want to indirectly underwrite Apple any more than I absolutely have to. As a matter of fact I'd like to see the whole company (Apple) fold up their tent and go away.
Peace
Larry
Last edited by Larry Kehl; 12/07/17 07:42 AM.
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
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And I say so what to that, IT COSTS TIME AND MONEY to write and test code for multiple OS's are you willing to fork over more money FOR BIAB for Mac's. I don't want Mac work by PG to affect or have impact on development of stuff for the PC version or have that Mac work indirectly add to cost of the PC product because folks have to be paid, overhead has to be paid, ....
There are Apple programs that exclusively Apple OS: should we I complain to Apple about Logic Pro?
Besides I don't want to indirectly underwrite Apple any more than I absolutely have to. As a matter of fact I'd like to see the whole company (Apple) fold up their tent and go away.
Peace
Larry
I understand your point about the whole Apple marketing scheme ever since Steve Jobs died and I don't think it will have an impact on the cost of the PC version, and you have every right to complain about Logic Pro being only for Mac users. If you look at what you get with the Mac version, you would conclude that you would be better off getting a laptop PC and buying BIAB for Windows. What I am asking for is for PG Music to respect both parties.
Last edited by Islansoul; 12/07/17 07:56 AM.
Computer: Macbook Pro, 16 inch 2021
DAWs: Pro Tools, Logic, and Maschine
plays drums, percussion, bass, steel pan, keyboard,
music producer/engineer
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Well, BiaB has its roots as a DOS application that became a Windows application.
So the codebase is pretty firmly planted on the PC.
When choosing to create a Mac application, I suspect that PG Music has a choice: port the existing Windows application to a cross-platform library so that Mac version could share a common codebase, or build the Mac port from scratch.
As far as I know, there weren't very many cross-platform libraries that supplied native look and feel and had excellent audio support.
Moving to a cross-platform library would mean potentially replacing solid, working code with bug-ridden new code that at the end of a long effort might not even work well.
I'm guessing that they decided to build the Mac version from scratch.
But when you build a complex computer program, you don't really build everything "from scratch." Instead, you end up relying on third party tools to supply some of the features.
For example, BiaB uses a third party library to handle audio stretching, which is far superior to what they had before.
Unfortunately, not every library available on the PC platform is available on the Mac. So right there, you're not going to have parity for the two programs. You're not going to remove features from the PC just because you don't have it for the Mac, right?
Then comes the question of which version is going to be the reference platform. You generally don't want to have different features in the applications, so you're going to code them on one platform first.
For reasons already mentioned, it makes sense for the PC to be the reference platform.
Now, not every feature that gets coded makes it out the door. Sometimes changes made to the code break other features in unexpected ways. So it makes sense that features wouldn't be ported to the Mac until they were actually demonstrated to work on the PC. Otherwise, it's twice as expensive when you make a mistake and have to abandon something.
Finally, I'm sure that it's expensive to maintain two separate applications. Someone who's intimately familiar with the Windows API is generally not also a Mac specialist. So it's likely that the Mac coding team is smaller than the PC coding team.
I suspect that there are just a lot of things that make it hard to get the Mac version up to the level of the PC.
None of this is any consolation to a Mac user.
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
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One can make a similar comparison with car models, washing machines, television sets and more. Some manufacturers will have more or different features than other manufacturers.
In addition to the useful dialog from others above, I understand and respect your frustration, but you actually can have all of the features of the PC version if you want. Just buy the PC version.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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I'm in two minds on the issue. On the one hand, I reckon PG Music is missing an opportunity in not targeting Macs. Macs are ubiquitous in the audio industry. If you want the trickle down effect from celebrity endorsements etc then you should come to the party. As it stands the PC orientation brands BIAB as a hobbyists program.
On the other hand, as a Mac user I'm not sure I'm missing out on much. I don't think Realband is for me when I have Logic Pro at my disposal. BIAB does everything I want it to ie access to cool Realtracks. Maybe it's because I'm a Mac user but I see BIAB as part of the music production process, not an all-in-one solution.
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Maybe it's because I'm a Mac user but I see BIAB as part of the music production process, not an all-in-one solution. I'm a Windows user and that's exactly how I think, too.
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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....On the other hand, as a Mac user I'm not sure I'm missing out on much. I don't think Realband is for me when I have Logic Pro at my disposal. BIAB does everything I want it to ie access to cool Realtracks. Maybe it's because I'm a Mac user but I see BIAB as part of the music production process, not an all-in-one solution. Exactly. I love BiaB I love my Mac, iPad and iPhone I love the amazing power of Logic Pro X and its $199 price with free and frequent updates. I love Izotope and their world of Mac compatible products. I love Apple’s cloistered “we’ll take care of you world” including absolutely seamless IOS and MacOS updates. I often communicate with BiaB Windows users and for my production purposes I don’t feel that I’m lacking. Your results may vary and I apppreciate and understand that. Cheers, Bud
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos
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Maybe it's because I'm a Mac user but I see BIAB as part of the music production process, not an all-in-one solution. I'm a Windows user and that's exactly how I think, too. That makes at least three of us who think this way.
Dad, how will I know when I've become an adult.
When your day is ruined because they rearranged the grocery store.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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First of all, although I sell aftermarket styles for BiaB, I have no professional experience with PG Music except for a friendly one, and no 'inside information' so everything here is guesswork.
1) It takes thousands and thousands of hours to write software.
2) If you look at my style/fake business for BiaB and if you look at the average number of people reading the forums, there are 20 BiaB users on PC to 1 on Mac.
3) Therefore for the programmer spending thousands and thousands of hours writing code, for ever one dollar writing Mac code brings in, the PC brings in 20 dollars.
Fortunately style and song data are cross platform, so at Norton Music, I release Mac and PC versions at the same time and they are equal.
But put yourself in PG's shoes.
Say you are on your job and you had a choice at work to work on Project A and Project B. Both projects are time consuming and would take about the same amount of time to complete. Project A pays you a bonus over your regular pay of $1 per hour and Project B pays a bonus of $20 per hour. Which would you take?
The problem with Apple is that they make their products non-compatible with the rest of the computer world. Even in the early days by using screws that needed a patented tool to open the cases so a non-Apple computer tech couldn't even fix them because they controlled to tools.
They use proprietary jacks (like the lightning) that they keep the patent on, and as soon as the patent becomes PD, they will introduce another patented connection.
Why?
Steve Jobs' philosophy. Keep the Apple people from straying to another platform by making the switch either difficult or costly.
Now I can't say whether that is a good business plan or not, because I'm not in their shoes, but it does make things difficult for the cross-platform software author.
Getting paid 20 times more for the same amount of work on the PC is very tempting.
But of course, that leaves an opportunity for another to write exclusively for Mac and take the lower profits because the competition in the Windows arena is also very fierce.
And Apple isn't the only one that does this. I had a minivan that I need because I'm a gigging musician. After about 90,000 miles the transmission oil needed changing. My mechanic explained to me that it needs Mopar oil which costs $85.00 per quart. He said they change the specifications a tiny bit, that doesn't really matter, but if I put anything else into it, it will void the 100,000 mile warranty. The car gave me good service so I paid $85.00 per quart. It was OK, the van lasted about 200,000 miles before I wore it out.
Because of these fairly common business practices, Apple people sometimes have to wait or settle for less in the software arena, but on the other had, they also get exclusives.
And I do freelance recording as 'sax for hire' and every studio I've been in for the past 20 years has had both Mac and PC computers in it. Probably for the same troubles you are going through.
Insights and incites by Notes
Last edited by Notes Norton; 12/08/17 05:01 AM.
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Maybe it's because I'm a Mac user but I see BIAB as part of the music production process, not an all-in-one solution. I'm a Windows user and that's exactly how I think, too. That makes at least three of us who think this way. Make that four.
Cheers, Mike My Music * Asus ROG Strix G15CF 32 GB DDR4 4TB HDD + 1 TB SSD NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 8GB Win 11 AKAI EIE PRO Sound Interface. BIAB/RB 2024 UltraPak Build - Latest
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You can run the PC version of BIAB on your Mac with a utility. Peter Gannon does.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Maybe it's because I'm a Mac user but I see BIAB as part of the music production process, not an all-in-one solution. I'm a Windows user and that's exactly how I think, too. That makes at least three of us who think this way. That makes 4 of us.
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Yes, there is the BIAB app, but that’s not what I meant. Run boot camp or parallels on the Mac, load Windows, then run BIAB for PC.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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No offense sir but you have to look at overall market share. There are just a lot more PC users than MAC: Older info but probably not too much different.... According to the latest numbers from NetMarketShare, the Mac now accounts for 9.57 percent of all PCs currently in use. Windows is of course still number one, with 88.77 percent of all usage. (Linux is in third, with 1.65 percent.)May 3, 2016 - https://www.thurrott.com/hardware/66933/mac-nears-10-percent-usage-share
Mac Audiophile 2020 2019 2018 2017 USB plus previous years versions macOS Mojave - 10.14.6 @ Aug 16, 2019 iMac i3 3.6 GHz 8GB RAM 4K with Retina display some examples @ sound cloud done with Mac Band and DAW's : https://soundcloud.com/you/tracks
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Yes, there is the BIAB app, but that’s not what I meant. Run boot camp or parallels on the Mac, load Windows, then run BIAB for PC. Hey Matt, wouldn't this make you vulnerable to the vast world of PC virus if you had to access the net via the partition? I know a lot of Mac users including myself who would not relish the notion of having to load Windows antivirus software or deal with the host of Windows update issues. FWIW. Bud
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos
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Steve Jobs' marketing strategy was to get Apple Computers into schools if even at a dead loss. He realized the "future value" of building a huge and loyal customer base. We are seeing a generation of adults who were weaned on Apple and aren't about to change.
The result has been that Apple has held a monopoly on their hardware/software development making outside developers cautious to invest the required R&D time/money to develop anything for Apple Computers. Apple retains too much unfettered control.
I'm seeing a lot of Apple versions being shipped that I attribute to the "Jobs' Marketing Strategy".
When I shopped my first ever computer, I looked for the OS that had the most software available. At that time, Windows PCs had 10 times more software that I was interested in and the pricing was lower due, in part, to the "free market" cloning of IBM computers.
In this regard, Jobs shot himself in the foot. While IBM clones were being made in abundance worldwide, Apples were limited to a very limited production in Apple facilities where Jobs maintained tight ( probably to a paranoid degree ) control.
Donny
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