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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Hey Folks,
I'm just curious to hear what some of you think about Band-in-a-Box being called "Artificial Intelligence"?
Performances are recorded by humans and an algorithm is able to intelligently recompile that data into different chord structures and string a progression together in musically intelligent ways. There are enough variations that randomizing the generation produces different results each time. But is it artificial intelligence, or just a clever algorithm?
Low-level AI? It isn't really composing the song rather than following a set of rules, I think. Not sure how the chord progressions are generated, but I think they are just a bunch of programmed chord progressions that can be randomized using some key basic rules that keep the new forms logical and harmonious.
At what point does it become AI?
I'm also wondering what PGMusic developers think about this too, and thinking about what kinds of AI might be added to the application in future for even more creative song constructions and track mixing?
Not sure if this is a silly question to be asking or not, but I was thinking about it and thought I'd see what some of you thought about it.
Cheerios,
Zedd
BIAB 2024 Audiophile, MacPro (Mid-2010) OSX 10.12.6
DAW: Digital Performer 8
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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I don't think BiaB is AI, but instead reflects the creativity and intelligence of Peter Gannon and his team.
I've written styles for a few auto-accompaniment hardware/software and software products, some "for hire" with non-disclosure clauses and with BiaB as an aftermarket business that I hope supports PG Music while making a little 'side money' for me so I don't have to travel to gig in the slow season.
Of the apps I have written for, BiaB has the most intelligent design and allows the style writer to put in things that the others do not.
The result is the output often seems like AI, and even with my own styles, sometimes surprises and delights me.
It's one of the reasons why over 25 years later, I'm still here, still writing aftermarket styles, and still enjoying using Band-in-a-Box.
IMHO we are all using the very best auto-accompaniment device available.
Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Some would call it artificial intelligence only when it crosses the line after which a human can't tell it is not another human. I think BIAB is more like a decision support system. It can only call up RealTracks that have already been recorded. If we ever get to the point where the RealTracks are generated on the fly on demand from an infinite set of possibilities, then I will change my mind.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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The dictionary sezs: the theory and development of computer systems able to perform tasks normally requiring human intelligence, such as visual perception, speech recognition, decision-making, and translation between languages. However, i often wonder about Band-in-a-Box finding myself somewhat amazed at what i believe to be AI creating music. How is it that i can type in just one chord in the first bar of let's say 32 bar chord sheet for any given style and away it goes. The human intervention was very limited and the creation of music was not human. I was not playing a keyboard or vocalizing or playing a harmonica by example. Or i can select a style , type in the chords of a song, although do not add a melody for that song and when you hit play it does create an illusion that you are hearing/listening to that song. Here again the human intervention was limited.
Last edited by w; 04/16/18 10:32 AM. Reason: typing corrections
Mac Audiophile 2020 2019 2018 2017 USB plus previous years versions macOS Mojave - 10.14.6 @ Aug 16, 2019 iMac i3 3.6 GHz 8GB RAM 4K with Retina display some examples @ sound cloud done with Mac Band and DAW's : https://soundcloud.com/you/tracks
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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It's just following a set of instructions coded into the app by very intelligent people. If it comes to the point where BiaB can initiate the desire to create a symphony and then create one, I'll go with AI.  Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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While it may seem like AI, I think to be AI it needs to be able to learn and adapt as it goes along. It merely follows its set rules, but doesn't adapt to learn more about how you do music the more you use it. Of course, the flip side of that is that it doesn't really provide the user with a means to give it feedback, so it is somewhat one-sided. What if it were more like:
BIAB: "Here's an arrangement I came up with. What do you think?"
USER: "Everything's good, except the drums for this style is too loud."
BIAB: "Okay, I'll adjust that for you so the next time you use the style, I'll tone down the drums a bit. How about now?"
USER: "Perfect"
BIAB: "Great; however, there's another style that probably does exactly what you want. Would you like to preview it and then decide which one to keep?"
USER: "Sure"
BIAB: "Okay, here it is"
USER: "Naw, I like the first one"
BIAB: "Okay, I'll not suggest the second one as a substitute again."
My $0.02 worth and probably not worth even that.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2025/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Good answer John.
Or:
User typing in a D chord
BiaB: This is a II chord and it seems like it is in a ii V7 I progression so consider making it a Dm chord. Of course if you want that major 3rd you could leave it, but I liked the sound of the minor better.
Notes
Last edited by Notes Norton; 04/18/18 09:27 AM.
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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^ jford, and as always you windowguys will have that version before the Mac version is released
Mac Audiophile 2020 2019 2018 2017 USB plus previous years versions macOS Mojave - 10.14.6 @ Aug 16, 2019 iMac i3 3.6 GHz 8GB RAM 4K with Retina display some examples @ sound cloud done with Mac Band and DAW's : https://soundcloud.com/you/tracks
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And what Notes said, too.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2025/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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I don't need a program arguing with me over my choice of chord; I get that enough from other musicians! (kidding)
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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I've quit some bands because of that Matt (only slight exaggeration).
Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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... If we ever get to the point where the RealTracks are generated on the fly on demand from an infinite set of possibilities, then I will change my mind. Well, I have to agree with that.
BIAB 2024 Audiophile Mac
24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5
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And I don't want BIAB to be so smart that I can be able to say, "Hey, BIAB, write the next hit song for me!" "Okay, there you go!"
I like that it does a lot based on my own input, but I still want to retain control artistically, while at the same time not getting mired down by having to manually deal with every little possibility. I love the balance of being able to pick a style that's close to what I hear in my head, perhaps regen it a few times to get it close (and probably good enough), and then if I want to, I can always load it into a DAW and slice and dice it to the nth degree. That last part only happens on a select number of songs. Life's too short.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2025/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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... then if I want to, I can always load it into a DAW and slice and dice it to the nth degree. ... I don't slice and dice to that extent but... I use BIAB for vanity projects where I get it close to what the client wants then export the MIDI to Digital Performer. There I assign VIs form among the libraries I own. Without BIAB, I'd have to charge thou$and$ more for these custom projects. Even though the Real Tracks in BIAB Audiophile never make the final version, it's nice to have them for the demo—it gives the client confidence in my abilities to give them what they want. Now, if the client says, "Perfect, I'll put my vocals over that.", then the Real Tracks would make the final but that hasn't happened yet.
BIAB 2024 Audiophile Mac
24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5
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It's just following a set of instructions coded into the app by very intelligent people. I believe you are right! The intelligence here is not artificial but rather human ingenuity. While it may seem like AI, I think to be AI it needs to be able to learn and adapt as it goes along. It merely follows its set rules, but doesn't adapt to learn more about how you do music the more you use it. Of course, the flip side of that is that it doesn't really provide the user with a means to give it feedback, so it is somewhat one-sided. What if it were more like:
BIAB: "Here's an arrangement I came up with. What do you think?"
USER: "Everything's good, except the drums for this style is too loud."
BIAB: "Okay, I'll adjust that for you so the next time you use the style, I'll tone down the drums a bit. How about now?"
USER: "Perfect"
BIAB: "Great; however, there's another style that probably does exactly what you want. Would you like to preview it and then decide which one to keep?"
USER: "Sure"
BIAB: "Okay, here it is"
USER: "Naw, I like the first one"
BIAB: "Okay, I'll not suggest the second one as a substitute again." Indeed, jford, indeed. That would be authentic AI and such an enhancement could certainly enhance workflow and the user experience, though I won't expect this until at least BIAB 2028. I don't need a program arguing with me over my choice of chord; I get that enough from other musicians! (kidding) <giggle> Good point! But on the other hand, it would be cool to have AI which you could enable or disable to actually suggest chord adjustments or improvements to the progression that might have greater impact based on a study of popular "hit" songs in certain style. It would be up to us to decide whether we should argue with the AI if in fact the chord progression ended up a bit more interesting than we had made it for ourselves. Great feedback folks. Thanks for all your comments and discussion on this! I'm glad I brought it up.
BIAB 2024 Audiophile, MacPro (Mid-2010) OSX 10.12.6
DAW: Digital Performer 8
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In the early days intelligent systems were little more than a series of "if this occurs then do this" if not then if it is this "do this" or else look for the next option. This would look on and on and work its way through a number of iterations. Depending on how well the programmer knew the problem and the possible resolutions was how good the AI system was.
One of the creepiest things I toyed with back in the Commodore 64 days was a thing called ELISA basically this thing analysed your fellings and it worked. How, by asking a question using what you said and a simple set of rules and a basic database that simply fired back at you what you told it. One could sit at this for 30 minutes and you could feel better about yourself. What it really did do was make you think how can a Commodore 64, a toy, do this to me.
Many smart systems I have worked on or with, learnt what fixes were applied in what situation. These systems could indeed recall and repair very complex issues. However if ever faced with an issue the system had never seen before, it was of no real use. Similar to calling most call centres "if your issue is not in the system then it cannot exist" the last else is usually "try the latest update if that doesn't work then contact the user forum maybe that'll fix it".
Using BIAB one sets the chord progression then finds an appropriate set of instruments that fit the pattern (I often find the the instruments - style whatever then design the pattern). Rarely do I use a style without changing or adding a track but that is me. Often, once I have the song down I'll put it into a daw and manipulate parts moving a few bars that sound better here or maybe regenerate a part in RealBand to get something I like better. I may even add my own piece or add a midi part to enhance it (well make it the way I want it).
BB is super clever, it has an absolutely brilliant support team making it even more so. It has the forums lending more weight. Is it artificially intelligent I don't think so but I do think the folk behind it and the support is incredibly intelligent.
My long winded thoughts
Tony
Last edited by Teunis; 04/21/18 12:41 AM.
HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home,
Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612
BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1
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I think it will be AI the day it does things on it's own initiative that the programmers did not code into it, learn from the results of what it did, and improve it on it's own the next time the situations presented themselves.
Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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I’m going on a hunch I do think 2020 uses ai. Does it use it for everything not sure depends how bib architecture and databases are set up. I think ai in bib is probably a good thing. Long as embellishments improve and When we title our track like AC/DC it scans our chord and knows it’s a AC/DC song and knows it’s thunder struck so it suggests perfect match real tracks and then plays it perfect. Now we are talking. I think it’s close to this and already might partially do this.
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Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!
It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!
We've added many major new features to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, including advanced AI tools like the amazing BB Stem Splitter and AI Lyrics Generator, as well as VST3 plugin support, and Equalize Temp. Plus, there’s a new one-stop MIDI Patches Picker with over 1,100 MIDI patches to choose from, all neatly categorized by GM numbers. The MultiPicker Library is enhanced with tabs for the SongPicker, MIDI Patch Picker, Chord Builder, AI Lyrics Generator, and Song Titles Browser, and the tabs are organized into logical groups. The Audiophile Edition is enhanced with FLAC files , which are 60% smaller than AIFF files while maintaining identical audio quality, and now ships on a fast 1TB SSD, and much more!
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These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
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We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
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- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
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- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
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We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
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