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HearToLearn, you make some really great points. I agree with 90% of what you said! The part I disagree on is whether or not BIAB is capable of producing modern music. As you have correctly noted, there is none in the showcase. And, perhaps even more telling, the programmers and musicians at PG have also not produced any modern chart-worthy examples.
I've had this conversation and even had folks here try to convince me with examples of modern sounding music they could quickly produce with BIAB but honestly nothing that sounded chart-worthy to me.
So yes, the vast majority of BIAB users producing music and sharing it here are using BIAB exactly how it was designed...to produce awesome sounding classic rock, classic jazz and classic country. Maybe there are some BIAB users who have mastered BIAB to the point that they are able to get modern sounding songs or as Bob suggested, maybe they are using DAWs to produce their modern music.
Personally, I am trying to produce a more modern set of songs and I am using loops, MIDI tools and, I hope, BIAB for some tracks and bits. But I think the magic, should any occur, will be in my DAW.
And I will go ahead and say, as you do, NO OFFENSE INTENDED to BIAB users or to PG! None at all! Just speaking frankly!
One parting thought...if someone did manage to produce something modern and chart-worthy, maybe they would not be inclined to pop into the forums and say "Here is how I did it!"
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BiaB is a rather unique tool, it does what it does better than the limited competition. Generally I'd agree with this but I am starting to see some damn fine competition for specific instruments. As an example, I own RealGuitar and it has some great acoustic guitar samples but what makes it shine and easy to use is they also provided me with a ton of patterns that I can mix and match to lay out my song. And when I add the humanize feature I can come up with an acoustic fingerpicked guitar I love better than any acoustic fingerpicked RealTrack I have found (and I have tried all of them)!
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I'm not trying to put words into Hear To Learn's mouth but, my take on what he is politely saying is most of the users that post in this forum do not follow current music. Since we are not familiar with current music we likely will not be familiar with using PG products to create current music.
PG Music does provide content suitable for creating modern pop music. For example look no further than the included with every purchase loop collection which contains loops for genres like drum and bass, trance, edm and dirty south; all which are likely genres many of us have never heard of or listened to.
I don't have the desire or know enough about current music trends to successfully incorporate these loops into my music. It just doesn't match what I hear in my head. I suspect the same is true of many other users.
Yet I also have little doubt someone with a different attitude and a different way of listening to music, for example Weird Al Yankovic, could use PG Products to duplicate the feel and sound of any current song. After all that's what parody is all about.
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eddie1261
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I'm not trying to put words into Hear To Learn's mouth but, my take on what he is politely saying is most of the users that post in this forum do not follow current music. Agree. I haven't listened to the radio in 20 years. "Current" music is far more widely varied than when I was young. There was rock, country and soul. Not all these niche genres. What is "Americana"? I have been told that Americana is everything that doesn't fit into other genres. Is Bryan Adams Canadacana? And British bands Briticana? One great example of what I am trying to say is Radiohead. I had a prof in my Pro Tools class that went on and on about those guys. I listened to what was listed as their 10 best songs and was never so bored in my life. I came away with the opinion that they sound like burn outs who smoked way too much pot in their teens. I would never strive to create music inspired by Radiohead. Ergo, I am "not in tune with current music"? I watched Austin City Limits last night. There was some band called the Avett Brothers. I thought their music was trite, banal, and just plain stupid. Neither of them can sing. At all. They yell, but they don't sing. But they are popular. So again, I guess I am out of touch. Plus they look totally unprofessional on stage. How stupid would a short fat old white man look on stage rapping? That'd be me. So am I out of touch, or actually quite IN touch with who I am? On some of the threads here, some of the PG staffers have commented about their favorite bands. I have pretty much never heard of any of them. That is a specific way of saying "To a man my age, with 40 year old children, they are kids. They are listening to their generation's version of my generation's Beatles." I quit watching Lollapalooza when half the acts became DJs. I don't want to listen to a bunch of kids taking existing music and remixing it. That bunch doesn't write a single note of music. Nothing. So, to topic, if anybody has the time to sift through the literally millions of combinations of styles and real tracks to try and come up with something "chartworthy", bless them. I, equally as literally, don't have enough years left in my life to do that. Nor do I have the desire. This is a hobby. I have no deep rooted idea that something I write will ever be on any chart, even "Joe's Chart of Stuff That Doesn't Fit Anywhere". I guess I could make up my own chart, but I probably wouldn't pick me..... I should also add that I haven't watched the Grammys in about 15 years either. I have no need to know who "The award for the song with the most anger, vulgarity and sexism goes to...." I don't know how old you (HearToLearn) are. It seems like you are far younger than a lot of us. Some of these guys voted for Lincoln.....
Last edited by eddie1261; 04/25/18 04:32 PM.
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Some of these guys voted for Lincoln..... Now that's funny...I don't care who you are! 
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Really? $600 is going to break you? At this point in my life, yes....pretty much.....  As for BiaB and the showcase, a lot of the folks in there could write a great tune using loops on Abelton because they are Songwriters & Musicians, NOT wannabees!  Talent will always win for folks who appreciate it. For the ones who think sampling someone else's work & calling themselves musicians because the snapped it to the grid...well, they will never get it.  All IMHO, YMMV, yada yada yada etc etc etc  
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I think producing a modern sounding track is possible with BIAB. It certainly has a lot of tools to do that. In my opinion it is the skills you have in using those tools to make a song into what you envision. I think for most of us old pharts having the vision is the problem.
As Jim so rightly said, most of us don’t follow new music. But.. IF we did follow new music all the time AND we did want to make a modern sounding song AND we tried making modern songs over a period of time (many many times), then maybe. But the point is we have got to want to do it.
One of the things I am trying is making covers sound modern, using BIAB. I figure if I do one a week I may hit my goal in about 2022....
Now I’m off to check out Ableton live.
Last edited by JoanneCooper; 04/25/18 06:44 PM.
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Come on guys, back to work! I'd love to see someone do a Prince cover in BIAB/RB. That would be impressive. Any takers?
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Come on guys, back to work! I'd love to see someone do a Prince cover in BIAB/RB. That would be impressive. Any takers? Do you have any particular song(s) in mind?
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HearToLearn, you make some really great points. I agree with 90% of what you said! The part I disagree on is whether or not BIAB is capable of producing modern music. As you have correctly noted, there is none in the showcase. And, perhaps even more telling, the programmers and musicians at PG have also not produced any modern chart-worthy examples.
I've had this conversation and even had folks here try to convince me with examples of modern sounding music they could quickly produce with BIAB but honestly nothing that sounded chart-worthy to me.
So yes, the vast majority of BIAB users producing music and sharing it here are using BIAB exactly how it was designed...to produce awesome sounding classic rock, classic jazz and classic country. Maybe there are some BIAB users who have mastered BIAB to the point that they are able to get modern sounding songs or as Bob suggested, maybe they are using DAWs to produce their modern music.
Personally, I am trying to produce a more modern set of songs and I am using loops, MIDI tools and, I hope, BIAB for some tracks and bits. But I think the magic, should any occur, will be in my DAW.
And I will go ahead and say, as you do, NO OFFENSE INTENDED to BIAB users or to PG! None at all! Just speaking frankly!
One parting thought...if someone did manage to produce something modern and chart-worthy, maybe they would not be inclined to pop into the forums and say "Here is how I did it!" I was going to reply to this yesterday and may day took a different direction. Life! lol. Anyway, I'm not sure...are you saying you don't feel a modern/chart sounding (I think that may be how I wanted to phrase it) song couldn't be done with BIAB and/or Realtracks? I think it does take some additional instrumentation and outside daw use to do it...just like mostly every song in the showcase though. It's definitively not the "set and forget" mentality for something like this. I totally KNOW it's possible. Someone will do it. The short version : To me it's like saying, "my guitar doesn't play jazz."
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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Crazy day for me, so here it goes...
Jim-You get me! lol
David-Right on brother!
Eddie-You made my point. Also, 46.
Gotta go for now. lol
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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eddie1261
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As for BiaB and the showcase, a lot of the folks in there could write a great tune using loops on Abelton because they are Songwriters & Musicians, NOT wannabees! The biggest point that has become subliminal here is that a large number of us DON'T play in bands to where we have a drummer and guitar player waiting for a call to come over and lay down tracks. As usual I can only speak for myself but I have no intention of EVER being involved with the drama that goes with prima donna musicians again. I can't get along with ONE wife. I don't even want to try it with 5 of them! While the drums in BIAB lack custom fills, they keep perfect time. The rhythm instruments just need to lay down beds for the vocals. And bass? Well, ANYBODY can play bass... LOL! So BIAB is meant to fill the need of a backing band as a writing tool. Some of the guys play gigs, but look at what they play. Nobody here is playing Madison Square Garden with BIAB backing tracks. Playing at the VA or the senior's home doesn't exactly require an extreme high level of quality. Nobody there is paying 100 bucks a ticket to get in. Sure we have all put out CDs with BIAB tracks, but in my case if it was a project where I seriously expected to sell 100,000 or more copies I would have brought in musicians to replicate and enhance the BIAB tracks. It was a bucket list item for me, and now that I checked it off, if there is a second CD it will be just because that particular whim hit me. Bottom line, as many have said in many forums, BIAB is a specific tool to fill a specific need, that need being to provide backing tracks so we can write when the mood hits without logistical problems of scheduling a bunch of arrogant prima donna musicians who whine non stop because they are not being paid to rehearse and any other thing they can think of to whine about. God I hate being in a band. I don't get along with ONE wife. Imagine how it I am with 5 of them!
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............ As usual I can only speak for myself but I have no intention of EVER being involved with the drama that goes with prima donna musicians again.
.........
Bottom line, as many have said in many forums, BIAB is a specific tool to fill a specific need, that need being to provide backing tracks so we can write when the mood hits without logistical problems of scheduling a bunch of arrogant prima donna musicians who whine non stop because they are not being paid to rehearse and any other thing they can think of to whine about.
Right on brother right on!
While the drums in BIAB lack custom fills, they keep perfect time. The rhythm instruments just need to lay down beds for the vocals. And bass? Well, ANYBODY can play bass... LOL!
It is my understanding that RDs have single hits at the end of their strings so via cut and paste you could make custom fills. Also if you use MIDI you can easily create custom fills. Being a bassist I disagree about that bass statement  PS - Don't jump on me, I saw your LOL
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OK, this whole thread has me seriously confused now.
I believe there are 30,000 people on this forum, or something like that right, from all over the world?
I would assume that the majority of those have BIAB or they wouldn't be on the forum.
Let's say 1/3 of those know how to use a DAW, play an instrument, and have familiarity with samples and VSTs.
Are you saying that out of 10,000 people across the world with home studios, no one has the ability to use Band in a Box with other stuff to make a piece of crap that sounds like chart material?
No one can write lyrics about having sex by the fire and sipping pink champagne?
No one has access to FL Studios or Maschine????
Come on people, show us what you got!
I say we have a contest to see who can use BIAB and other stuff to make the biggest piece of crap ever written in the history of mankind, and I guarantee you that you will get on the Today Show and never have to worry about $600 ever again.
What is wrong with you people? All we are asking for is a little stupidity and a complete lack of musical ability. Is that too much to ask???
It is time for PG Music to now sponsor a contest on:
Who Can Write the Crappiest Song Ever in the History of the Universe
Then we can settle this modern songwriting argument once and for all, so we can all just move on.
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eddie1261
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No one can write lyrics about having sex by the fire and sipping pink champagne?
Sorry Mr Snyder, but I am not familiar with either of those topics.... Who Can Write the Crappiest Song Ever in the History of the Universe
Then we can settle this modern songwriting argument once and for all, so we can all just move on. That's not even a contest anymore! I won that title LONG ago!!!
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David-Kuddos on a new approach; but I'm not sure insulting people into doing this is going to work. In all honesty, I think people REALLY underestimate what it ACTUALLY takes to make some of these songs. Not some half-arsed, "this is as good as anything on the radio" swing-and-a-miss...but the real deal. If it were actually THAT easy, it would be done MUCH more. It's hard work. I don't care who you are. If it's not your thing, I think that's totally cool. I say people should like what they like, and write the same way. The charts are not the be-all-end-all in my opinion. FAR from it! Most of the music I like would never chart at all. It does seem a bit strange though about the number of references to how pathetically easy it would be to do chart sounding songs...yet who has done it? It always has to be cut down to make it sounds like it takes now talent. Show me even 1 song that I can actually put in a playlist with actual other songs on the charts right now and not have it stand out like a sore thumb. Looking for just 1 here. If you (no one specific here) say how stupid and crappy this kind of music is, yet you can't do it...you are saying some not so great things about your own abilities. I dislike the sound of screamo music. It is SO NOT my thing. I don't say it's no talent crap though. I would look STUPID if I had to try to play blast beats are sing that way. I'm talking MAJOR embarrassment. I just not a fan of it; and that's about where it ends for me. I'm glad we have the songs in the user showcase we do. There's a lot of great music there. I do wish we had a tad more genres represented to really showcase not just us, but the flexibility of the product as well. PG Music, in so many ways, has set us up for success. I'm sure at some point, we'll have people who add to what we already have. Later for now.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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Any Prince song will do Deaconblue. The rest of you have given me an entertaining read this morning. It's instructive to listen to some of the acoustic covers of the latest songs on Youtube. It does show how good some of them are. The rest my 12 year old daughter makes sure I get the hear!  I'm begging just put some Justin Beiber on.... 
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What is modern music? Is it the boom boom boom window rattling sound I hear when a car goes up the road?
More importantly what is the next big thing in music (for those wishing to really make it).
BIAB in my opinion is a great product that allows one to create. As I wrote some time back one is only limited by ones imagination. I unfortunately don’t have the imagination to write songs (I usually end up sounding like someone else). I do however have enough creativity to put together what I consider good backing tracks. Not pure copies of some song I could download from the WEB but my own sound my way. I have had others ask where I download my songs my answer is I generated them.
Do I just use BIAB? No, I also use several daws and don’t just grab a style and use it. Most times I’ll add or change tracks. Sometimes generate the same songs a few times, bring the tracks into a daw the chop and change parts. It is my choice.
I really don’t see BIAB as limited. I repeat it is only as limited as ones imagination.
The way I feel
Tony.
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These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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