Lately I have worked a lot with Christmas Karaoke Production.. Using Biab + Karafun + Format Factory Mux have made it an easy task. UNTIL I started to use Kontakt and some new Library I purchased from Chris Hein. The sound is excellent and I have been happy most of the time with just using one instrument at a time. BUT, when I started to extend it to it's fully potential, BiaB just seems to be a rotten old application, that cannot handle anything of what I want to do. And the help and support for my posting about it from PG- Music has been minimal, despite my post is still marked with (Not yet solved), it seems to me that PG Music does not give a [*****] about it...
Some forum member have been to a lot of help for me in the matters, but is it so, that we have to rely on other forum members to get support???? Should not staff from PG-Music be there to try to help???? Don't tell me I have to write an E-mail to the support team. Are they not seeing the post here?
I wrote an list of what happens when I do this and this in my last post. Nothing that make any sense to me. I found a work around that worked until now. Setting the soloist track to send in channel 11. But today, that also stopped working... And I encounter all kin of strange behavior all the time in Biab. Channels leaking all over... Take in sound from other channels. Take in volume control from other channels a.s.o.
But why will I balder to write a step for step list, showing what happen, when I wrote it already, adn there is no respond from PG-Music on that one, strange as it is????
No, in the best of my understanding, it should not be like this... I am start looking for other option for my karaoke work. And the library I bought from Chris Hein, sound so good that I dont need any more Real tracks. That cannot play the melody anyway...
Even copying a track from the Melody track to the Soloist track oes not work for importing midifiles. It says successfully copied, but both track is empty. So I have to click undo, and export the melodist track as midi, then import it to the soloist track.. WTF???
And when I import a older MGU file that has a RT on the soloist track, and I try to erase it, it just refuse to be erased...
Yeah, I could write a long list about what is going wrong, but why balder? PG- Music seems not to be around anyway. And again; I refuse the idea that I have to write an private email and explain the problems. For who else in this forum can learn from it then???? I have to post my mail AND the answer from PG Music here, so others also can learn from it? B.S.....
And BTW, posting suggesting in the suggestion forum? LMAO.. Almost no respons anyway, from PG- Music. Is it good? Will it be considered implemented? Who knows??? It's like throwing a bottle mail in the ocean and hoping someone a sunny day will pick it up...;)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I have been drinking a few beer, and my shyness to express my frustration is gone.... Sorry if someone find it offending...;)
But I still believe in miracles though...;)
Forever Grateful, BUT, sometimes pissed of. Trygve "Leo" Larsen BiaB 2020, Windows 8.1, Intel Core i5 CPU, 270GHz, 32 Gb RAM My OLD tracks on Soundcloud; https://soundcloud.com/trygve-larsen My NEW is unpublished The Universe = Uni-verse ie one song.
Lately I have worked a lot with Christmas Karaoke Production.. Using Biab + Karafun + Format Factory Mux have made it an easy task. UNTIL I started to use Kontakt and some new Library I purchased from Chris Hein. The sound is excellent and I have been happy most of the time with just using one instrument at a time. BUT, when I started to extend it to it's fully potential, BiaB just seems to be a rotten old application, that cannot handle anything of what I want to do. And the help and support for my posting about it from PG- Music has been minimal, despite my post is still marked with (Not yet solved), it seems to me that PG Music does not give a [*****] about it...
Some forum member have been to a lot of help for me in the matters, but is it so, that we have to rely on other forum members to get support???? Should not staff from PG-Music be there to try to help???? Don't tell me I have to write an E-mail to the support team. Are they not seeing the post here?
I wrote an list of what happens when I do this and this in my last post. Nothing that make any sense to me. I found a work around that worked until now. Setting the soloist track to send in channel 11. But today, that also stopped working... And I encounter all kin of strange behavior all the time in Biab. Channels leaking all over... Take in sound from other channels. Take in volume control from other channels a.s.o.
But why will I balder to write a step for step list, showing what happen, when I wrote it already, adn there is no respond from PG-Music on that one, strange as it is????
No, in the best of my understanding, it should not be like this... I am start looking for other option for my karaoke work. And the library I bought from Chris Hein, sound so good that I dont need any more Real tracks. That cannot play the melody anyway...
Even copying a track from the Melody track to the Soloist track oes not work for importing midifiles. It says successfully copied, but both track is empty. So I have to click undo, and export the melodist track as midi, then import it to the soloist track.. WTF???
And when I import a older MGU file that has a RT on the soloist track, and I try to erase it, it just refuse to be erased...
Yeah, I could write a long list about what is going wrong, but why balder? PG- Music seems not to be around anyway. And again; I refuse the idea that I have to write an private email and explain the problems. For who else in this forum can learn from it then???? I have to post my mail AND the answer from PG Music here, so others also can learn from it? B.S.....
And BTW, posting suggesting in the suggestion forum? LMAO.. Almost no respons anyway, from PG- Music. Is it good? Will it be considered implemented? Who knows??? It's like throwing a bottle mail in the ocean and hoping someone a sunny day will pick it up...;)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I have been drinking a few beer, and my shyness to express my frustration is gone.... Sorry if someone find it offending...;)
But I still believe in miracles though...;)
I share many of your frustrations. I am also starting to depend on other tools. If they don't make major improvements this time I may be done upgrading. And adding quirky, partially implemented features like Video RealTracks do not qualify as "major improvements" to me!
As far as I understand Kontakt, and I hope that others will correct me if I'm wrong, it is primarily designed for a DAW environment. While BIAB can sometimes be massaged to do things that DAWs can do, at the end of the day, BIAB is not a DAW, it's a program that generates backing tracks. MIDI programs like Kontakt with multichannel outputs, really shine in DAWs like Reaper, Sonar, Studio One, etc. Why don't you use a DAW with Kontakt?
Have a look at the below 12 minute video clip on Reaper and multichannel MIDI routing and you'll see what I mean... it's incredibly powerful. This is not something BIAB is capable of doing.
Kenny (the voice in the video) also has a heap of videos to help people understand how to use Reaper to get the best from MIDI. These are at...
What I've been doing for many years now is to use BIAB to generate MIDI tracks -- BIAB does this really well (it's what it's designed to do). When I'm in BIAB, I just use a simple general MIDI synth (TTS-1 or Coyote WT) to hear how the tracks sound.
When I get the tracks playing the notes I like, I then drag my MIDI tracks to Reaper and use the VSTi and DXi programs to make the MIDI sound the best I can get them to sound. MIDI editing in Reaper is also very streamlined. For me, BIAB is a tool in my music-making tool chest it's not my 'one stop shop' for creating a final product.
The above workflow works very well for me.
Following your posts over the years, it seems to me that you are now moving into those areas of music making where the power of a good DAW is what's needed if you want to get the very best out of what you do.
Leo, that's ok, let it out. We are all friends here. A good rant can be cathodic.
Now that you are feeling better, please read over Noels thread above again and again till it really sinks in. Noel has said it better than any; 1) BIAB is all about finding a workflow which works for you. 2) BIAB is not a DAW and therefore you need to combine the power of BIAB with a DAW.
The workflow path you are trying to go down is not what BIAB is capable of doing - unless you like frustration.
I love the sounds that Kontakt provides and I use them as much as I can afford. I also love what BIAB can do for me - but I don't combine these two tools directly. Instead I combine them both in Reaper. As a result I find myself making music rather than getting frustrated with what can't be done.
Trust us, we may have been down this road ahead of you and can tell you all is sunny on this path.
Thanks for posting this Noel. As I get further into MIDI programming and song creation, I'm starting to see the value of your workflow rather than just using RB as my DAW. Originally, years back, I was using Sonar, but through various iterations from version 8 through the BandLab version, I'm beginning to think that Reaper might be the way to go. Think I'll give it a go and download the trial version. Thanks again for your post.
Sorry you are still having problems. Did you see my last post on the other thread a short summary of what I do with copying the melody and soloist midi data and sending to separate instances of Kontakt
I n fact if you re read the entire thread you should be able to see what is possible within BIAB for me at least, 2018 ultra plus version and Kontakt.and how to achieve it,
If you have the Kontakt full factory library set of instruments library installed, I will post you a link to a mgu file that calls 2 of these one of each to a separate instance of Kontakt on the melody and soloist tracks using ch 4 and 8 and swaps between them using bar settings F5 This file also uses a third instance of Kontakt for a choir from the same library to replace the strings in the midi style part track channel 7 Let me know if you have the library . and I will put the link here
Mike Note If anyone else should want to play with this file if you have the Kontakt library let me know here.
I would love to play with the file if possible, because I too am struggling a bit with using Kontakt in BiaB. I have Komplete 11 Ultimate (inclusive the full version of Kontakt 5). I get confused about how to use different channels, presets, etc.
Here is my opinion on this topic, an opinion that many of you do not share so if you want to discuss this with me please keep it civil.
1-BiaB is not a DAW! It is a 32 bit backing track generator. I know that PGMusic has added a number of DAW like functions such as importing a multi-track MIDI file but it is still not a DAW. IMHO a DAW in a necessary component.
2-Using a work-around so one can add 64 bit VSTis is not the answer. If you want an easier way to use 64 bit plugins you need a 64 bit program.
3-The DAW you use should be a 64 bit DAW like Sonar/Cakewalk, Studio One, etc if you want to use 64 bit plug-ins.
4-BUT if you only work with RTs and RDs and use little MIDI then the current BiaB and RB will work perfectly for you. You will not need any of the above suggestions. BUT if you are heavy into MIDI then 1-3 is what you really need.
One can circumvent most if not all problems if one uses BiaB only as a backing track generator using GM MIDI then moving all MIDI files to a 64 bit DAW and use those pro 64 bit VSTis and VSTs.
YMMV
I think my wife has started to show the first signs of dementia. She said she can't remember what she ever saw in me!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
I knew all those things when I bought BiaB a month ago and I absolutely agree with you. BUT I don't see any wrongdoing in trying out how far you can come with BiaB, because there are some advantages by staying in BiaB or RB if you use a mix of RTs and midi (virtual instruments) - especially when composing, where it is much easier to try out new chord progressions and things like that. If only using midi the daw will of course always be better.
Hi Will You are most welcome. I assume by what you say you will have the full factory set of Kontakt instrument library. So this file should jest get up and run and you should see it load the Kontakt samples as it opens in BIAB.
If you have not it will probably say samples not found, In that case if you still load into BIAB then in the mixer window PLUG IN TAB Click on Kontakt in the track that you want and choose a voice .instrument that you have got, in the Kontakt screen Set the input ch in each track to > 4 for the instance on the melody track 8 for the instance on the soloist track 7 for the instance on the string track (old track mixer naming name) You can always check channels under OPTIONS / PREFERENCES / CHANNELS,
Here is the link not musically perfect some notes could have been a tad longer, as just a quickie to prove it can be done.
The file plays fine, but not with Kontakt sounds (and I have the full factory set), just basic midi sounds.
It is late now in my country, so I will have to go to sleep, but I'll play around with it tomorrow and see if I can get it to play with Kontakt-instruments.
I was going to stick my two bobs worth in yesterday but I wanted to see where this was going.
In my opinion BIAB is a tool like a lot of other things are. BIAB is great for creating tracks be the Realtracks or MIDI. Nothing that I have found beats BIAB for quickly designing a set of chords and putting a really nice set of instruments together to play the chords as laid down. Often there will be parts that require further editing. That is where a DAW comes in. Even with DAWs there are subtle differences.
For regenerating parts of a Realtrack RealBand is a great choice. Then we go the next step.
I for example use Reaper for editing audio. I use Sonar for editing midi then I convert the midi to audio slice, dice, mix and master in Reaper. Why? I find editing MIDI is simpler in Sonar because there are tools in Sonar that I have not seen in Reaper. For example, in Sonar <cntrl><F1> opens up a set of (editable) scripts that allow for MIDI manipulation for all sorts of things like setting random velocities or staggering hits making for realistic strums on a guitar etc.
To manipulate the audio is easier and faster in Reaper cutting and splicing is easier in Reaper I think.
To create nice instrument patterns is not at all easy in either Sonar or Reaper they were not designed for this purpose. I found even using Ignite to generate a MIDI strum pattern it was easier to pull that into BIAB and create a style then use the style to generate the chord pattern for the song.
Each programme, DAW, Ignite, BIAB has its own use and speciality. It is how you use them for your most effective workflow that is important. That is an individual choice. But, there are many ways to arrive at a good outcome.
As far as I know not one tool does it all. If there was I guess someone would still like to do something different.
My thoughts
Tony
HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home, Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612 BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1
We haven't been ignoring you. I did respond to your other thread twice, but have been away for the past week. I'll take a look and see if I can come up with something to help tomorrow.
I really do encourage you to email us at support@pgmusic.com when you need direct help from us though, as I can usually come up with solutions more easily when working one-on-one, rather than when I'm one of many people trying to help in a longer discussion on a user forum.
Regarding erasing RealTracks, I find clicking on that track in the mixer, going to Select RealTracks, then either choosing "Choose No RealTracks for this track", or hitting Select RealTracks again and choosing None works right away.
Do you have an instance of Kontakt as your synth on the melody soloist and strings tracks You can check this by going to the plugin tab in the mixer. If so click on the word Kontakt top row of plugins and the plugin should come up on screen check the Kontakt input channels are set as I said, You may have to zoom your browser to see image clearly MIKE
Thanks! The Midi settings page/window was the missing link. I've never been on that page before. Now I understand what you mean by setting the different channels...
Maybe I just got lucky when I started using midi in BiaB, because with synths like Absynth 5, Massive or FM8 I didn't have to worry about channels - it just worked. Not so with Kontakt, it seems.
I'll play around with your track and see what I can learn.
Great yes the channels shown in my bottom pic last post are the defaults as set by BIA|B What is important is to match these in Kontakt top pic See new close up below Pull down the channel box and set port A from host to the channel you are sending from the BIAB track . Mike
Yes great you win some you loose some but I do try to help out, and I appreciate your comments. It is great when someone says thanks.
I suppose I am a pretty big user of VSI plugins of all sorts not only here but in Sona etc. so got to know how to map them to where I want them.
If you care to have look on my web site (link below post) on the front page you will find a creation called TOWARDS THE LIGHT and a brief technical description of how I done this . In fact it has over twenty tracks many using VSIs a lot of which are Kontakt and some of those are multi in themselves. May not be your cup of tea musically but you can see what I am about.
Thank's a lot guys for valued input and responses to my rant...;) U r all great guys and I am very thankful for having a so great community.. I respond a bit late, because of connection problems..
Anyway, it seems like I found the problem for the no sound rom Kontakt in my exported track. I was thinking; Let me record it directly to Audacity when I play the song in BiaB, since all the sound is correct there.. To my surprise, the recorded song in Audacity also did not play the sound from kontakt. So then I figured aut is must be something with my sound setting. SO I tried to change to the WAS driver and bang, there was sound !! Never had to that before. But OK, now I am back in the saddle with problem solved.. Not all of course, but at least the biggest.
I understand the limitation in BiaB vs a DAW, but BiaB serves my simple needs very well. The backing tracks is what I use it for most of the time. Backing-tracks for Karaoke songs..
So again; Thank's a lot for help and responds, all of you...!
Forever Grateful, BUT, sometimes pissed of. Trygve "Leo" Larsen BiaB 2020, Windows 8.1, Intel Core i5 CPU, 270GHz, 32 Gb RAM My OLD tracks on Soundcloud; https://soundcloud.com/trygve-larsen My NEW is unpublished The Universe = Uni-verse ie one song.
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