(I'm a beginner at music theory so please forgive me if I use the wrong wording)
For me, one of, if not THE most valuable feature of Band in a Box is it's ability to turn numbers into chords, so i type in 1 and I get the 1 chord of the key and 5 to get the tonic 5 chord. This seems to work as expected for major chords, however very weirdly or plain wrong for minor chords?!? For example I set the key to Cm and type in 1 into a box. I'd expect Biab to convert that into Cm, but instead it fills in a Eb.
This seems to work fine for majors, so typing in a 1, 4, 5, 1 progression in say C major gets me C, F, G, C, as expected, however in C minor, that same 1,4,5,1 should i think translate to Cm, Fm, Gm,Cm, but instead it gives me Eb, Ab, Bb, Eb. Now I thought maybe I just don't know and Biab is picking inversions, but for example the 2chord in C minor should I think be Ddim, but Biab converts the 2 into an F upon hitting enter.
Similarly in Bminor, I believe 1 should be Bm, the 2 a C#dim, the 3 a DMaj/D ... while Biab converts that to D, E, F#. Maybe this is a better example as the above could be just an inversion, but as far as I understand Bm's 2 chord, C#dim is the notes C# + E + G, while the E chord should be E, G# B, so not the same notes in inversion, as far as I can understand things (which is granted limited).
I hoped this would be fixed last year at the transition to Band in a Box 2018 from the 2017 version, but even if this doesn't get patched I wanted to say that understanding how this may require extra work from you I would promise to buy the new 2019 version just for this feature if it gets implemented even if I may not buy it for a few more styles. It would mean a lot to me to be able to work with minor keys also, as well as other helpers in chord functions to composing.
Thank you for all your hard work and this amazing software! Please forgive me if I am missing something obvious. While as an amateur I have been using your wonderful software I'm quite the weak layman when it comes to music theory, yet, thanks to your amazing software magic I am still able to compose and I am for that forever thankful to you!
If you go to "Options | Preferences" and then click on the "Display" button, you'll find a setting that relates to minor keys and chord displays. (see the image below)
In the option shown by Noel, it uses the term “relative major” key. Since you mentioned perhaps not being strong in music theory, I’m just checking if this is something you know: The two keys of Cm and EbMajor are related by the fact they share the same key signature. Likewise, Bm and DMajor.
For example, Am is the relative minor of CMajor (and CMajor is the relative major of Am). The key signature of both is no sharps and no flats when you play the scale starting on A or C respectively.
BIAB wasn’t picking notes at random, or wrong notes, when you entered your scale Roman numbers. This was identified a year or two ago as being confusing for some needs and the checkbox cited by Noel was added by PG Music after users requested it. But because of the music theory connection of relative major and minor, it was made an option for those of us who like it the way it was.
I hope that helps explain what’s going on, for you or anyone else confused by this.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
Thank you for your answer. It is interesting however it does not solve the actual problem: Biab doesn't seem to understand minor keys like it does major keys, this is just a display option, not what chords are played. With the toggle off, I type in 1 and I get a C. I think that means Biab plays a C, NOT, a Cm. With it on I type 1 and I get an Eb. Indeed, a C is more suggestive than Eb as to what i wanted but a C is a C major chord as far as I understand, and still not the more romantic C minor.
When I type in 2, in the key of C minor, I should get iidim, meaning D diminished. Instead with it checked off I get a plain D (major) and with it on, I get F, both being major chords, neither diminished flavor. Am I missing something? It is my understanding that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diminished_triad sound/feel different than major triads.
More specifficaly: Ddim, which is what the the 2 chord in C minor key should be has the notes D – F – Ab. I get that any permutation of these would be fine, even if by another name. HOWEVER, Biab with the setting on gives me either the F chord, which has the notes F, A, C, while with the setting turned off it gives me a straight D chord, again a major. The D chord has the notes D, F#, A. See, neither of the two results has the note Ab, but instead A, leading to a musical dissonance if I try to make chord progressions in C minor.
I would love to use Biab to make minor chord progressions, using functional chords, however as it is right now I can't use it that way, and I am forced to always write in the chords by name instead of referring to their functions.
Thank you very much for your interest! I really hope this gets solved, at least in the next version if not through a patch.
Matt Finley: thank you for your answer. I knew about the relative minors/majors, and I had noticed/guessed that, but that still doesn't solve the problem to me: if I write 2 in C minor key i expect to see there a Ddim as in https://www.piano-keyboard-guide.com/c-minor-scale.html "Chord ii: D diminished. Its notes are D – F – Ab." if I get a D, those are different notes/chords/sounds differently and in that sense I see it as not working even if i do get a D instead of an F which i would get in the other setting with the relative minor/major.
Band in a Box plays something different if I insert a D instead of a Ddim or a Ddim instead of a D, and depending on they progression/key this could sound bad and mess up a song.
for an explanation of why I find this valuable say I make a progression based on a flow chart like this https://i.stack.imgur.com/XNCwK.png , the results of it should naturally work with an approach where I say pick the chords in a key and make a song based on that, and the two methods must work together, not clash, as it is currently, forcing me to type in all the chords by hand instead of making use of Biab's great automation (which by the way works fantastic for major keys, just not for minors)
In both major and minor keys, BIAB does not put the chord-type information automatically.
I suspect that this decision was made so that different users could easily enter whatever extensions they wanted. In this regard, the numbers are designed to give the starting place for chord entry by providing the fundamental bass note and not the chord.
For example...
In the key of C major, if one types 2 <enter> or II <enter> or ii <enter> on the chord sheet, BIAB will enter D and not Dm (while D major is not the correct chord, D is the correct bass note for the chord on ii). This also applies to chord vi (minor) and chord vii (diminished).
Quote:
It is worth noting that, from a classical theory viewopint, II can mean either "the triad built on note two of the scale" or it can also mean simply "note two of the scale". Both are correct interpretations.
As I see it, BIAB's present system supports the second of the above two options.
That said, there is an inconsistency with minor keys.
I've just had a bit of play around with Nashville (numerals 1, 4, 5, etc.) and Classical notations (Roman numerals). With the setting deactivated in "Display", as mentioned previously, the minor-key note entry remains based on the parallel major scale.
What I've found is that if I set the key to A minor and enter iii (III or 3) on the chord sheet, I get C#; for vi (6 or VI), I get F# and for vii (7 or VII), I get G#. While F# and G# could arguably be based on the melodic minor, I personally feel that it would be better to base chord entry on the harmonic minor (the scale's name indicates that it's the minor scale used primarily for harmony).
This would give vi = f and vii = g#.
I have passed the above information on to the development team and have also referenced this thread so that all comments can be read.
thank you for doing that! I understand what you're saying about how it works now but crossing all fingers (and toes) in the hopes that future Biab versions will do a bit more of these automatic conversions with chord functions (and who knows, maybe even more modes other than just major and minor). Working with chord functions is I think incredibly rewarding, yet it's quite a chore because always looking up takes time and can lead to confusion, but this is EXACTLY where the magic of programming/software/Biab could find an amazing niche of awesomeness by taking this and doing it for the users.
A further example of what I'm talking about would be say the topic of this video https://youtu.be/7ONIzO3l-fw , the jazzy 2,5,1 progression, the advantages of thinking about it like that, and the pluses of going from major to minor... in all of these places it would be very veeery nice (and afaik a unique feature) for Biab to be aware (on a deeper level than the base note) of the functionality of chords.
Using something as powerful as say this https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d7/9e/0e/d79e0e4f1616d015e7b9fafc2dd998c8.jpg with Biab understanding and always converting the numbers to the correct chords depending on major/minor/modes would bring Biab a huge edge in bridging from music theory to awesome songs.
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