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RealBand
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I am working with a VSTi plug-in that implements a range of World Instruments. I See that I can attach it to a MIDI track in RB and drive it from that. I am a complete noob when it comes to VSTi plug-ins. Is there a nice tutorial that explains what I am expected to do with Bank and Preset to configure a VSTi specifically for each track? Currently, I can hook it up on each track, but as I click from one track to another, any changes I make in the VSTi's control panel just get dropped.
I know enough that VSTi's store their setting in files. This also tells me that there is probably a particular strategy that people use to name these files and make sure that they don't get lost if you move things around on your hard drive.
The BB and RB manuals don't discuss this (or maybe I can't find it). I guess they think that people know this VSTi stuff already. I am clueless about it.
-Bill
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RealBand
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VSTis vary in the way they work, some have "ReadMe" documents, a few have manuals. Some are for single instruments such as Trumpet which, to set up, I would use the Classic Tracks Window (the alternative is the Main Tracks Window but that is more complicated). Enter a number between 17 and 32 in the Column PT (Output Port) and then click on the "DXi" Icon at the top of the Main Window. To assoociate a specific DXi/VSTi plugin to the Output Port, click on the first Plugin Box and negotiate to the name of the VSTi plugin you wish to use. Click and the name will appear in the Plugin Box. The other three boxes can be used for Effects Plugins. You are now clear to go. For other tracks repeat the process of Port selection followed by Dxi/VSti allocation.
Some DXi/VSTi Plugins allow for multiple patches to be chosen for each incident of the Plugin being used. The VSC DXi, Forte VSTi plugins which each provide a standard GM (General Midi) sound bank of 127 patches. are typical and each will address 16 channels of Midi Data for each incident of the Plugin. For these Plugins you need to select the same Output Port for each of the tracks using the Synth and select each individual instument by entering the appropriate numbers in the Columns "Prg", "Bank" and/or LSB for the individual tracks. Each of these numbers would be in the range of 1 to 127 and the information is made available in Plugin Displays or in the documentation.
Some Plugins permit the use of multiple patches which have to be specifically assigned within the Plugin and associated with the relevant tracks. Example: Samplers.
I hope this is of some help.
Lyn
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RealBand
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Joined: May 2000
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Yes, it sounds like you are trying to use the same instance of the VSTi multiple times.
You have to assign multiple instances to different ports for each track as Lyn described above.
example- track 1 - port 17 assign the synth
track 2 port 18 - assign the synth (so it is another instance of the synth on it's own)
track 3 port 19 - assign another instance of the synth
etc.
Otherwise you are only running one synth and trying to control it from different windows, which will defeat the last change you made.
Use 'save preset' to save sounds. Usually the plugin will save in a default directory, so when you go to open presets later they will be right there.
..or you can pick a directory if you want, but I usually use the default.
If you are able to use multiple instruments at the same time from this VSTi (by design), then it will not be necessary to use multiple ports, instead you would need to make sure each instrument is on its own midi channel. Is it a 'one sound at a time' synth?
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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RealBand
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Thanks to LynB and rharv for your very clear response.
The plug-in I am working with is from Swar Systems and it implements a very long list of Indian classical instruments. I have their demo right now, which only has four instruments.
It makes no attempt to map these into a MIDI GM set of any kind. Instead each instrument is an individual preset. This is part of what threw me on how to set things up on this. Using your suggestions, I was able to assign different instances of the plug-in to different ports, and also select and save a preset for each one. I verified that I can exit RB and restart it and see that all this configuration information is NOT in place. Then when I open my sample song it all comes back. This says that all of this configuration data is just for this song and not global to RB. It also says that it must be in the SEQ song file somewhere.
When I saved presets for each instance of the plug-in I went with the default file names that came in the save dialog box. I just wanted to be safe for now, but I assume I can change these to whatever I want. One key issue is that these files all live in the same folder as the plug-in DLL, so I am going to have to be careful to back this up and also think about how to manage this across multiple songs. I should probably create some kind of template song or something for this new "band" and keep it as the starting point.
There are a lot of issues with managing this that I still don't quite understand. It is obvious that the SEQ file has all this configuration in it now. So how portable is this ? What happens if I move this to another machine. The SEQ file is a binary format, so you can't really look to see what's in it easily, but using Notepad2, I looked inside and see lots of strings like this:
C:\Desktop\Music\VST_Plugins\Swar_Demo\SwarPlugData\MN1CLOSD.WAV
Notice - the hard coded paths!!! Yikes - this means that the song is now tied to my hard drive configuration.
Please feel free to send any more comments on this that you can, as I figure out how to do this in a maintainable way.
Also - I am happy to report that the Swar Systems plug-in works just fine and sounds great. I only have the demo right now, which has four instruments. I need to verify that it all works when merging everything down to a WAV file.
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RealBand
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Note the filename extension on this file you pointed out -
C:\Desktop\Music\VST_Plugins\Swar_Demo\SwarPlugData\MN1CLOSD.WAV
Its a (probably temp) .wav file, I doubt any system config is associated with it.
I have saved presets in one seq and opened that same preset in another song many times .. Is this what you are saying you are having trouble with? I do not use default names usually, I name it so I know what it is. Maybe you can't overwrite the presets (?). Many free synths have restrictions on them, could this be one of them?
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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RealBand
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I am not really have any trouble now. I am just trying to see where I am going to run into issues going forward. The important thing right now is that you guys have gotten me going and it all works.
I would like to see if I can get this plug-in to work off MIDI channels instead of ports, but I will have to work this out with Swar tech support unless there is someone else out there that is already familiar with this product. I will also find out if there is a way to have multiple instruments play from a single channel.
It is good to hear that you can choose any names you want when saving the presets and that this is correctly stored and retrieved with each song. Could someone now explain what is commonly done with "Banks" now? Banks seem to be collections of presets, but that would not seem to be useful in my situation.
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RealBand
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William, you probably know that many VSTi actually do work on midi channel as well as port - but more often multi-timbral VSTi like to operate with channels. One that I use now and then is Sampletank. You can have just one instance of it and send various tracks of midi data, but each track on it's own channel, and it will crank away playing the multi-track data.
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RealBand
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Actually the world of VSTi is completely new to me, so any information like this is useful. In the documentation it says: "SwarPlug is not a multi-timbral plug-in but depending upon your sequencers capability, you can open as many instances of SwarPlug as required".
So, now that I know what multi-timbral means, it is clear that each instrument that I want to use is going to require a different instance and port.
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RealBand
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Needing a different port may or may not be necessary for each track. PG products handle plugins in a different way than many applications.
Have you tried simply putting a new instance on each track, then controlling each track/instance of swar with a different midi channel?
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RealBand
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The song I am testing with has a full set of tracks including drums, string, guitar, piano, etc.
In my first set of tests, I loaded the Swar VSTi into the "DXi/VSTi Synth 1" slot in the dialog brought up from the DXi icon. I then selected this entry from the drums track and also from the strings track. I selected the tabla drums and did a Save Presets from the drum track, and then switch to the piano track and selected the Harmonium and did another Save Presets. I then switched back over to the Drum track, I saw that it was now set to Harmonium. The drums are on MIDI channel 10 and the piano is on MIDI channel 3, so the Swar plugin does not seem to pay any attention to the MIDI channel.
For my next set of test, I followed the procedure supplied by LynB above. When I configured four different entries - Synth 1, 2, 3, 4 and used the Classic Track Views to set the ports for the drums and piano to a different Synth number, did the same setup and Save Presets, things now worked and the preset selection was preserved properly and also go saved and reloaded with the song.
Is there another way to configure this that would verify that the MIDI channel is being ignored.
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RealBand
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Hi William,
I think that you are using four instances of the same Synth via 4 different Ports correctly. When DXi/VSTi synths are applied to individual tracks the association is track to Port. Channels become relevant when one instance of a DXi/VSTi is applied to multiple channels as then the Channel number is needed to determine which sound is heard for a specific track.
Lyn
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