Hi, it appears that BIAB can not change an acid loop when a mid-song marker is used to change the style.
So what I did is I brought in a style and I applied a loop to it. Then I saved the style with a name Test1 and tried bringing it back in and it worked (the style of the instruments was retained and the acid loop was also retained). Next I did the same thing with a different style and saved a different loop with it and saved it as test2. I read it back in and once again it brought in the correct real tracks and the correct loop. I did this back and forth switch a few times to verify it was in fact working. Note that both loops were set to repeat at the end of the marker.
However this failed. I re-indexed the style picker so it would find the two new styles I created. I brought in Test1 with its loop and made sure that once again the correct acid loop was playing. Now I put in a marker and changed it to call the Test2 style. It worked in that it changed to the correct real tracks when the 2nd marker was hit but the loop did not change (it kept playing the loop that is associated with test1 rather than switch to the loop that is associated with test2).
I would say this is a bug if others can confirm this. The reason I am interested in getting this to work is so I can put in melodies with my own instrument as an acid loop and set the ending with a different style so I can have BIAB pick up the ending melody part. A variation would be for jazz tunes which have different chords for improvising and the melody-2 after improvising is different than the melody-1 before improvising. I would need to use a different acid loop each time.
Any thoughts or verification this is happening to others would be appreciated.
Not sure if I mentioned this to you ? but another option I thought of is ADSR Sample Manager you can get a loop to loop or play once with a midi note trigger. It will sync to the Host temp and I think it will transpose the Loop with the midi note.
Do you have the loops installed on the Melody or Soloist track? If so, that could be part of your problem.
These two tracks work a little differently than the other tracks. For example, if I have a melody present on either of Melody or Soloist track, that melody will remain in place independent of style change. This is normal behaviour. How this could potentially impact on what you are doing, I do not know but it is something to keep in mind.
If you do have the loop on either of the above tracks, have you tried changing it to another track to see if that works?
Hi Noel, I tried your idea. I moved the loops to track 5 (strings) and I get the same result (tracks 1 to 4 which are real tracks of the style do change at the part market change but track 5 which has the loop does not). I double checked to makes sure the loops restart at the part marker (maybe I should change that setting). Thanks anyway.
Hi Pipeline, I read over your response and took at look at the sample manager. I don't really think I have time to dig that deep since it looks like a learning curve of more than I can afford at the moment. Maybe in the future. Thanks anyway.
I discovered something. In my mind it is a workaround since it really should changes with the style since bringing in the style brings in the new loop.
Anyway I show it in the attached diagram. If you want to change the loop at the marker you have to pick the new loop where I indicate.
It is very limited this way. Having the A marker for Melody-1 and a B marker for the solo chorus and a C marker (or even the A marker again) for the Melody-2 where the loop would switch with the new style would give the greatest flexibility. Of course being able to use any track would also give best flexibility. So being able to put it in the melody track would allow shutting off the loop during the improvising. So again the idea is to be able to record our own melody and do everything we can do if we were to write a midi melody but being ours we can get a much better sound. The Audio track does not allow for changing number of choruses on the fly.
Thanks Pipeline. I watched your video maybe 10 times :-) So I gather it is a plug in with lots of loops to install in BIAB styles much like BIAB does now. Not too much of what I hoped for would be on the fly.
Maybe PgMusic will be watching what I describe here (A summary of what I hoped to find).
Short version: Ability to create one or more acid loops containing all or part of the melody such that everything the midi melody track can do can also be done with these real instrument loops.
Long version: Ability to play all or part of the melody in an acid loop before the chorus and also all or part of the melody during the chorus. And also the ability to play all or part of the melody during a 2 bar or 4 bar ending again as an acid loop. The ability to play all or part of the melody during a tag ending after the chorus. Ability to mute them all (preferably on the melody track itself). Having the ability for the melody to be inside a style during the count in would be great. Lastly the ability of course to change the number of choruses on the fly exactly like BIAB can do now and if the melody is inside the chorus the ability to have it only play during the first and last chorus as it does now. So obviously in many cases parts of the melody would need to be saved to individual acid loops and drawn into BIAB when ever the marker calls for it within a custom saved style. I could see times when 4 different markers (indicating 4 different styles for 4 different melody snippets) would be needed (count in, intro, chorus, ending).
I think that sums it up :-) I suspect it could be years to get this. In some ways that is a good thing. It will force me to practice the melodies harder for jams just in case the person who initiated the new songs does not show up :-)
I will sit down and have a good think about it when i finish all the testing. Also if UserTracks were working good it would help, they need a change at any bar F5 option.
I suspect that the change needed to include all track stuff into the style change marker is not a huge change. I am actually kind of surprised they missed loops and of course user-loops which I am after since I want it for my guitar playing melody. My guess is they could insert this change without too much risk of inserting bugs.
Now putting one of these style markers into the two count in bars is a completely new idea and might be a programming challenge for them. That would not surprise me at all.
I discovered something. In my mind it is a workaround since it really should changes with the style since bringing in the style brings in the new loop.
Anyway I show it in the attached diagram. If you want to change the loop at the marker you have to pick the new loop where I indicate.
It is very limited this way. Having the A marker for Melody-1 and a B marker for the solo chorus and a C marker (or even the A marker again) for the Melody-2 where the loop would switch with the new style would give the greatest flexibility. Of course being able to use any track would also give best flexibility. So being able to put it in the melody track would allow shutting off the loop during the improvising. So again the idea is to be able to record our own melody and do everything we can do if we were to write a midi melody but being ours we can get a much better sound. The Audio track does not allow for changing number of choruses on the fly.
Yeah, I've never managed to get that "B" substyle thing to change to loop as advertised, and I tried many, many times.
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Holy sh*t Pipeline, this here is something that I would never even know to have dreamed existed! As you touched on earlier, there is the question of whether the loop will transpose (ACID key information-wise) along with the switching function executed by using what should be non-pitched MIDI entries along the piano roll.
Worse comes to worse, I imagine you can set the sample to non-transpose within that plugin the same way you can in BiaB(?). This would be OK with most drum loops, and maybe less so with percussion loops that are noticeably "pitched." With other instruments it could be even more of issue I imagine where you want to switch loops AND change key.
I'm working and will not have time to read the documentation or download and futz around with it until later, so I'm not even sure if my questions are even relevant, but this is something I cannot wait to explore.
Thanks again, Pipeline for your amazing contributions!
Update: I actually just saw in the comments section in the video accompanying the VST's update, that this is something that was requested and they are looking into...so hopefully this will be a feature in a forthcoming update!
Last edited by DeaconBlues09; 12/19/1811:09 PM.
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EDIT: Yeah, selecting Drums should no transpose, but it is, so will have to contact them.
I was thinking you could use multiple ADSR plugs in MiniHost, the midi could be set to different channels on the MiniHost midi track in BB and have a channel filter before each ADSR plug. Maybe another how to MiniHost video job for you
I ask them to add an auto DAW sync play option to the ADSR just in case PG don't get around to doing that with the BiabVST, this will them play the generated tracks in sync to the DAW for preview.
I will think about it more tomorrow, but with the key change if you are playing the loops with the midi notes that will be transposed when you transpose BB.
I was thinking you could use multiple ADSR plugs in MiniHost, the midi could be set to different channels on the MiniHost midi track in BB and have a channel filter before each ADSR plug. Maybe another how to MiniHost video job for you
I ask them to add an auto DAW sync play option to the ADSR just in case PG don't get around to doing that with the BiabVST, this will them play the generated tracks in sync to the DAW for preview.
I will think about it more tomorrow, but with the key change if you are playing the loops with the midi notes that will be transposed when you transpose BB.
I think multiple instances of ADSRM would start getting very CPU intensive very fast, but yeah, I was also already thinking that multiple channels on one MIDI track to accomplish the same thing.
As for the transposition issue, I reckon freezing and unfreezing the track containing the MIDI driven loops might be a good start. (Editing to add this would probably work only AFTER the loops were set on the MIDI track in non-transpose mode).
With respect to the BiaB VST, I'll admit somewhat sheepishly that for now I'm waiting for all the other industrious folks here to finish with the beta testing before I even bother with that!
Re Mini-host videos: there are so many amazing possibilities with that I thought I might cover! Especially with the piano rolls you can add and the routing possibilities. However, I don't know whether there is much interest in that sort of thing, and I'm entering a really busy period at work where I have been tasked with some training duties, so my free time is about to taper off drastically. BTW, I don't know if you saw my "25 screenshots and I launch a series" post. I tried to communicate how I was trying to gauge an interest in some of the more technical things that can be done, with a focus on hand's on implementation, but I fear that instead I just came off like a dick (did I? If so, I should probably delete the post...). Anyway, it's back to work for me now.
Thanks again for everything, Pipeline!
Last edited by DeaconBlues09; 12/20/1801:32 AM.
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