PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows If a style is all RealTracks can I add a midi track?

still working my way through the updated BIAB program (I have 2019 now but am still only knowledgeable on 2008!)

I want to add strings and know how to add RT strings but want to add a midi string section.

I know there is no midi information but I can't do it from reading the manual - tried the message suggested but it didn't work - the mixer showed a midi track but nothing played

ok this time it worked - no idea why things I try don't work first time!

I found that removing a Realtrack always was kind of quirky with any BIAB version. The way i do it is usually choose 'No Realtrack' from the right click menu on select realtrack. Then erase eventual midi data left behind, Track Actions, 'Erase .. '. After that the track is usually set free. But if you want to add a miditrack from elsewhere you can only do that in the Melody or Soloist tracks; right click 'Open Specials' ...

from memory i selected piano which had nothing assigned on the campfire with bass style i was using. then i had the option to generate a midi track and got the choice of either finding a style with strings (which is what I wanted) or a preset. the presets were fine so i clicked ok and got a midi track with strings.

i'm trying to create a backing track for once in a very blue moon a al Mary Black which is basically simple guitars with strings added on verse 2

You could try saving the Mary Black song you have created as MIDI file. Then load the style you like with a similar tempo-ed song, and import the chords from the saved midifile. Right click file, import ...

thanks Fiddler but its working as it should - BIAB doesn't like me trying new things and only reluctantly works when I do it a second time!

You mean BIAB doesn't like you? Man, it must be really tough being hated by a software program... I just can't seem to get my head wrapped around the very concept, for some reason I fail to comprehend... Just kidding, man!

Hi Bob, glad you solved your issue but for future reference when you may need the choice of either finding a style with strings (which is what you want) or a preset, let me explain a safe way to include midi tracks with your RealTracks projects. I'm sure there are many others that face the same difficulties trying to mix midi and RealTracks with their project as you did with this project you're working on. I have and it seems Fiddler has also in the past. It's more fun to fiddle with music (pun intended Fiddler than to deal with frustration.

This technique is nothing new but rather an evolution over time for me as I slowly put together snippets of conversations from here on the forum and elsewhere with my knowledge of multitrack recording. There may be hundreds of thousands of BIAB users already using this technique but I haven't seen it discussed in any depth in the forums and don't see much evidence of its use in the Users Showcase. Forgive me if I'm wrong. It will either be 10 minutes you'll never get back or it will change the way you make music with BIAB.

The process steps are simple but it's not an easy thing to do because to get the best results from it, you must know at the beginning for the most part, what results you want to get. In other words, you need to have an idea what you want your song to sound like in the end because you have to create a pathway (construct your instrumentation) that is clear and where instruments are complimentary where they are supposed to be and contrasting where they are supposed to be and finally each instrument can be clearly heard and has its space in the mix with panning and volume and Fx in the final version of the mix. The good news is because of the digital world of BIAB, the process is completely non-destructive.

Don't be put off by this method because I'm describing it to be more complex than it has to be. I describe it that way to make the point that you can use this method to make very complex songs that have dozens of tracks with dozens of instruments and special effects all from within BIAB without need of a DAW. The analogy is I'm giving you the steps to walk to a door, turn the knob and open the door. What happens once you cross the threshold, is limited only by your imagination.

In this case I'll use your project as an example and give you the steps to quickly, safely and non-destructively add midi tracks to your project mix.

I'll be using your current project as the foundation. In this example, it appears your song consists of two guitars with strings added to verse two. I'll assume you have correctly leveled and balanced the three tracks using volume and panning and applied the appropriate FX's. Your song could be finished at this point but let's take further. For clarity, the two guitars are panned + and - 20 on the scale and the RT strings are -35

1. Name and save this project

2. Render the audio mix

3. Locate and import the audio mix

4. Do Save As of the mix with the audio imported - You are now working with a new project and your initial project is safely saved.
You may or may not have to sync the audio with Bar One but you do that if necessary by opening the Audio Edit Window and Right Clicking to access the steps.

5. With the tracks synced, open the StylePicker

6. Filter to match your search for the current project: ie- POP,4/4, Ev8, 95, MIDI. Alternately, if you are doing a cover, you may want to search for the song
title. You can alter these search parameters to get the appropriate amount of Styles you want to work with. I rarely use the Category at first unless the
search results have too many in the list. Then I redo the search using different categories one at a time. In the upper box for this project, I would also
limit my search to 'Strings' since I'm searching for that particular instrument. I would leave Category blank in my initial search.

My BIAB version has 6,762 Styles that includes some Norton Third Party Styles. Filtered for Strings, Category blank, 4/4, Ev8, 95, MIDI = Located 131 Midi
Styles which is a reasonable number to work with.

7. Audition Styles and Tracks
By this I mean you should notate interesting instruments you come across as you audition styles. Here's why.

Although my search was for Strings which is the only thing I thought I wanted to add, one of the Styles listed was an All Percussion Midi Style named CALLING. From the Memo: Slow new age Style with low 8th note marimba, low slow strings, and warm pad. Add itopia voices and shaker at B sections. T=60-130. My project did not have drums or percussion. Why not audition CALLING as see how it works with my song? In BIAB Stylepicker, I use the Play using current Chordsheet with Song option a lot. Midi generates very quickly so a quick audition and I really like what I'm hearing and decide I will add this style of Percussion to my song.

Open the CALLING Style. Center all instruments except for the Strings. In the circumstance of my chordsheet, the midi strings match the RealTrack strings already in my project so I will use both and pan them opposite of each other. -35 and +35. Were they to mismatch, I would simply Mute The MIDI strings. Had I not chosen RT strings, I would use the MIDI strings.

That's how to safely and non-destructively add MIDI Tracks to your song and all the while give yourself many additional options to put creativity into your project.


______

But you still have thousands of BIAB styles and thousands of instruments, thousands of loops and samples, unlimited audio and unlimited sound effects waiting to be found and used in your project. Two features of BIAB I don't see mentioned much but have been expanded on in the 2019 version is the MEDLEY feature that allows up to 10 instruments (RealTracks) to change out per Channel on the Mixer. In the Bar Setting Window, you'll see this option can also be applied to change midi patches. The second feature is to export audio sub mixes, import the mix and convert the Audio to a Performance Track and move it from the Audio Track to another Track to free the Audio Track for further export/import audio sub mixes.

Using these two features along with the technique I just outlined provides the ability to produce a very complex arrangement solely using BIAB that consists of Dozens of Instruments on Dozens of Tracks. Because BIAB resides in the Digital World, these sub mixes are high quality first generation mixes.....

Hopefully some will find some use and motivation from my post and not to hijack the thread, if anyone wants to go deeper or has questions, start a new thread to carry on the discussion.

To add to this you don't need to even worry about styles when it comes to Real Tracks. They are not styles at all like midi styles are. An RT "style" is simply a collection of RT's that sounds like they could fit one style or another. They are really just suggestions. Unlike midi styles where you actually write out the midi parts as notation, RT's are prerecorded so there is really zero "style" information written.

What I've done when I'm not sure what's going to fit with what is start with an all midi style. Any style, it doesn't matter. You still set the tempo and time sig in your song. Right click on any instrument like bass for example. You go into the RT picker and like Charlie said filter for bass, country or whatever, tempo etc and start auditioning them, pick one and that's it. Go to the next instrument and do the same. What have you done? You're creating your own brand new RT style. You can even save it as a style if you want. Since the project was already created using a midi style, whatever instrument track you may want as midi is already set up as midi.


Now here's where I'll differ a bit from a workflow point of view. Saving part of your song as an audio file then importing it back onto the Audio track so you can create more tracks is too much for me. I'll start the whole song from scratch in Real Band. You have the same style selections, the same RT's and RD's and most importantly the same chord grid. Set up the chords exactly the same as Biab, select the style and what do you get? The exact same song you would have if you started it with Biab. What do you also get? 48 tracks to experiment with, adding as many other midi or RT parts as you want. You can change the chord grid to give you different slash bass chords, or different chord subs, or add part markers for drum fills. RB is a DAW so you're not messing with freezing tracks. As a DAW each track stands on it's own anyway. It's like you recorded a guitar on track one and decided to record a variation of it on track two. What does that have to do with track one? Nothing.

All you have to do is remember to check the box saying "Make all Biab tracks regular tracks". Then you can keep generating more tracks until you've used up all 48 if you have a need for that many tracks. You never change the ones already generated unless you want to. Remember EACH TRACK can use a different chord grid, a different style, can be audio or MIDI. Imho, who really needs Biab other than simply to audition a basic style with your initial chords? But once you want to go beyond that, time to move the song to RB.

Now to really add to the confusion the new VST can potentially do the same thing but in your DAW of choice. It's still early yet, the VST is getting it's kinks ironed out but it seems to me it could make RB redundant assuming you already prefer another DAW. If you don't then you get RB included for free so it can be your DAW.

Bob

If your using mostly RT don't use "Styles" a style based on RTs does nothing but assign 5 players.Just add your players yourself one at a time
Midi styles are different. So to restate, a RT style is just PGM choice of 5 players but the fact it's a style had no affect on what's played.

There are about 2000 RT styles. There are 2700 RTs. Doing it my way you have 2700x5=11500 potential combinations. I mix jazz players, country anything. If you stay stuck in styles you miss out on some cool renderings.

And to add more water to the mud, even though MIDI styles are essentially a complete collection of riffs on different instruments designed to go together, you can still assign the individual components of one MIDI style to a track in another MIDI style (similar to just replacing a RealTrack with another RealTrack).

That's right. This is a better description of what happens when executing my Number 7 tip.... audition styles AND tracks
You can find some amazing and very useful matches to your song utilizing this technique.

Wow what a thread, Charlie that would be a brilliant advanced tutorial video.


I am having to read it a few times to get it.

Until recently I had not found a video Screen capture program that would work on my old system. I tried with several free versions of software and none would load. I just found out not long ago that a program I've used for years has screen capture capability (VLC Media Player) and it has worked on my system in the few short tests I've tried. Give me a few days and I'll try to reconstruct the instructions in video and post it.

Try loom for screen capture. It is a chrome add in and works great

This is windows, right? Hit the Windows logo key and the Printscreen key at the same time. You may need to check the default directory it's saved in or you can tell it where to save it. Then when you use the Reply function on the forum, hit Attach file, browse to your Printscreen directory and that's it.

Bob