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I have been working on a project with an older engineer with a lot of recording experience. He uses Cakewalk Pro from the 90's; says it was the precursor for Pro Tools.
Anyway, he recommended I get a desktop PC with Windows XP. He says XP is the best Windows OS he has seen for recording. He says it is stable and has extremely low latency.
Has anyone on the forums been doing this long enough to have used XP for recording? Anyone have any opinions about this?
Thanks.
2b
i5-3210 laptop. Win 10 Home. 2.5ghz, 64 bit. 6gb RAM. Focusrite Scarlet 2i2.
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I'm not so sure about this.
Both Cakewalk and ProTools were developed in the late 80's by competing companies, Twelve Tone Systems (then Gibson, then BandLab) and Digidesign (now with Avid Technologies) respectively. As far as I know, neither was the precursor to the other, although they may have "borrowed" extensively from each other as features and technology progressed over the years.
Windows XP support ended on April 8th 2014. As a result, Microsoft no longer issues patches or security updates. Due to that, its become somewhat of a "hackers" dream particularly if the computer is used on the internet. Not only that, but as time goes on you may find that newer programs cannot or will not run on XP. Particularly if you get into the 32 bit versus 64 bit arena....Windows XP was 32 bit whereas Windows XP Professional was 64 bit as I remember.
From your "sig", you're running Win 10...one of the most stable and secure Windows OS's yet to be released. Yes, there is the constant forced update issues with Win 10 but I'm willing to trade that off for the security it offers. And, I have no latency or other issues
In my opinion, and mine only, I don't think this engineer is "shooting straight" with you. Yes, there are many people who use XP for recording, several here on the forum do exactly that. But since you already have a Intel i5 processor, are running Win 10 and using a recent interface, stepping back to an older build seems pointless.
It kinda reminds me that he wants you to conform to him and his ways rather than helping you get ahead....but then again that's just me. I could be wrong.
Jeff
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2025, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
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So.... many years ago, I built my own DAW. Ordered the parts on line, put it all together and loaded the OS. In the Cakewalk forums at the time, it was common knowledge that XP was one of the more stable platforms to use when running the cakewalk DAWs. I decided to use XP and I had to buy XP online. ( NOTE: This was back around 2008 IIRC 12 years or so ago ) I got Windows XP Pro 32 bit. It was, at the time a rock solid and stable platform to support Sonar X1.
((EDIT: at the time I was running a Dell laptop duo core with Vista as the OS. It was getting full (hard drive) and the programs and plugs were taxing it's ability to run efficiently. So I decided to build a more capable desktop machine ))
That was then, this is now. The DAW I built is still running rock solid and does everything I need. I have kept this machine off line since it was built only putting it on the internet long enough to authorize the new software that required registration, then once that was done, it gets disconnected from the web. It has the most up to date service packs installed. Yeah, it's not supported but who cares.
HOWEVER...... if I was building this same machine today, I would NOT install XP. It is, in fact, too old and limiting for today's computers. It can only address 4G of the memory, and doesn't efficiently handle quad core processors. Today, I would install W-10.
Until my computer dies, I will continue to run the old machine with XP. But when it does finally quit, I will rebuild with the most recent operating system. Of course, I will also have to update ALL my software, plugs, and VST's because they are all 32 bit apps. That will increase my cost to upgrade significantly. So until this DAW starts giving me issues, I will run it until it does.
BTW: Cakewalk Pro is really, really old. I started with Cakewalk Pro 8 running on Windows 95. I can't imagine anyone still running the Pro series of cakewalk as their main DAW in any sort of professional setting. People would take one look and walk out.
While your friend is correct..... his info is extremely outdated. XP was a good choice over a decade ago. Today? Not so much. Use the latest hardware and software.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 04/05/19 03:56 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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I agree with Herb and Jeff. I've just recently upgraded from Win 7 to Win 10 into an All in One desktop with 16 gig of ram. One thing I did before hand and knowing I would soon be migrating is I began to purchase software that was incompatible with running smoothly on my old machine, that would work on my upgraded system once I did purchase it. I purchased several software programs and upgrades catching them on sale when they were drastically discounted for short periods of time. These purchases included SampleTank Max suite and Studio One 4 Professional saving a considerable sum of money in the process as well as spreading the cost of the upgrade over a period of time rather than all at once.
My setup is much better than the old. I only have two complaints with Win 10 and those issues are likely to my inexperience with the OS but the Realtek audio sucks big time, is unstable and the OS keeps 'stealing' it and changing settings and the other complaint is I detest all of the commercials and sales offer popping up on my screen randomly.
I took the opportunity of the computer upgrade to also upgrade my hardware. I purchased a Presonus 192 audio interface and a Presonus Faderport 8. They integrate very tightly with S1-4 pro but after installing them, testing to make sure everything was working, I re-boxed them and off to the garage they went until I recently sent them on long term loan to a friend that also has a home studio and uses Studio One.
It's a great setup but I could never get comfortable with it. My workflow with Studio One has been so ingrained using the keyboard and mouse, I could not get use to working with the Faderport 8. While it will do almost everything, I had trouble with thinking about what it would do after I had already completed the task with the mouse or keyboard.
For others that may consider an interface and controller upgrade, consider a mixer/interface as well. I also have a Soundcraft Signature 22mtk mixer/interface and it is much easier to setup, more stable, provides more than adequate routing options, 5 monitor mixes, 4 subgroups, true analog summing, true latency free monitoring, Pro quality, on board Fx's and is a 24/22 audio interface that is simple to route back and forth between the device and DAW.
In my case, I prefer the mixer/interface to the interface/DAW workflow and the superior connection reliability. For me, I have the benefit of familiarity of previously using analog boards but also appreciate that although I'll never likely need them, I've gained the benefit of having 24 inputs versus the Presonus 192's 8 inputs at 2/3's savings in purchase price. Although the Presonus 192 has converters that capture at higher resolution, that is a feature I would never have need for in my studio. 48K is more than adequate for anything I'll ever do. The preamps are comparable between the two as is the interface.
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I'm an old fart and an iMacOS user but I still call BS on this as I lived in the Windows/PC environment from their inception until eight years ago. The notion that digital technology from that era is better is highly suspect. If one is so set in one's ways to as to use only older technology within the confines that it was designed for (and only that) then so be it. You can help but wonder how he handles plug-ins. Forgive me but I'll put in a shoutout here to Apple. For eight years now I have had many, many completely seamless minor and major OS upgrades with never a hitch. My DAW Logic Pro X cost $199 lifetime and never a dime more for any upgrades. That includes thousands of sounds, loops, drummers and effects and those numbers are increased all the time for $0. I upgraded to a new mac last year via the mac migration app and everything quickly transferred including ALL of my third part plug-in's -- zero issues. The mac Time Machine backs up throughout the day and any restorations are a few clicks away. OK, I'll shut up  Bud
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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Thanks to all of you. Great replies and plenty of ideas to consider.
This engineer does not use midi or VST instruments, so his needs are much less than mine in that respect. That's why he is able to produce a good sound with older software. His software does run better on XP, but the things I would do when I finish my current project would not work as well.
I was a bit skeptical, also. I will be using Win 10 and keeping it off the internet.
Thanks again to all.
2b
i5-3210 laptop. Win 10 Home. 2.5ghz, 64 bit. 6gb RAM. Focusrite Scarlet 2i2.
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<<< This engineer does not use midi or VST instruments, so his needs are much less than mine in that respect. That's why he is able to produce a good sound with older software. His software does run better on XP, but the things I would do when I finish my current project would not work as well. >>>
His setup has all the capability to utilize midi and in lieu of VST's, he may use actual hardware that every VST can only emulate.
He may also have the advantage of knowing his software inside/out to every nook and cranny and thus may be able to mix rings around many average mix engineers with more modern software and faster machines and so many options, features and add-ons they only have grasp of a third of. Just saying..
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Windows XP is no longer supported by Microsoft for security updates, so I personally wouldn't suggest getting a computer that uses it. If you buy newer equipment as well keep in mind that Windows XP initially came out in 2001, so you're looking at an operating system that is nearly 20 years old that you may not be able to use newer programs or physical products on.
New technology is being created and improved upon all the time and you always have a team of people working on making the latest and greatest stuff. So if you want to buy new equipment for recording you'd want to make sure it's something that would even work in Windows XP, and even then there's a really strong chance that if you buy equipment compatible with Windows XP, which will most likely be second-hand, that the manufacturer may no longer offer support for the product. This could mean that they might have removed drivers from the website or if something goes wrong with your audio interface, microphone, etc, the manufacturer may not be able to help you troubleshoot your issues due to the age of it. Or, another point is a computer that is going to have Windows XP on it won't have very good specs in general.
This is all just my personal opinion of course! I'd just go with Windows 10. Everyone has their operating system they really like and ones they dislike, but generally speaking Windows 10 is pretty good.
Cheers,
Ember
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Another drawback to using an older OS like XP. I alluded to it briefly in my former post above.
I can no longer buy software and synths and plugs and effects without a very detailed study of compatibility. Essentially, very few companies are taking the time to make their products compatible with 32 bit older OS's. They either do not support 32 bit operation at all or state that if the OS is not listed as compatible, there is no support offered if things don't work.
So... essentially, I can't buy any of the latest synths and updates to my existing software. I am SOL until I upgrade my operating system.... then I have to purchase all new software.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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The feedback you folks have given has convinced me. I am going to put together my system and my room this summer. It will be new stuff. I am tired of limping along.
Thanks to all of you.
2b
i5-3210 laptop. Win 10 Home. 2.5ghz, 64 bit. 6gb RAM. Focusrite Scarlet 2i2.
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Don’t use XP. Solid reasons have already been given
But after browsing the thread I’m not sure the central claim of low latency was addressed fully. We would need to know more about the sound card and the driver for it. Your engineer may have a stable low-latency solution (as long as he keeps it off the Internet) but his sound card may not even be available now, or might not work in Windows 10.
In any event, Windows 10 made some improvements over 7 and 8 and 8.1 in terms of digital audio, so I question the engineer’s claims that latency used to be better with XP.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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I have to agree with everything mentioned here. Windows XP just isn't secure or stable like it used to be. We're talking about an 18 year old operating system. It was great for it's time, no doubt - but Windows 10 is just vastly superior in every way for reasons already mentioned in this thread.
Cheers,
Deryk
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My windows 10 setup is rock solid. No latency issues and the only cloud on the horizon is when my Soundblaster Audigy ZX Platinum dies. It's ages old and was bought when it was the only solution with a front panel. But now with new usb interfaces its going to be easy to replace - if costly for a top class audio solution
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Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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