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Rustyspoon - I agree that latency is probably the biggest irritant to me. I've taken a sort of middle ground with my guitar and bass recordings: I use amp simulations that are dedicated to that, externally to my DAW interface. No noticeable latency, and I have the immediacy of the sound and no playing with it afterwards other than fades and pans.
I see lots of comments above about clipping - it's SO easy not to clip in the digital recording domain that you should never ever have to worry about it. Particularly if you have a 24 bit or higher bit-depth interface.
You simply do not have to worry about it if you are using roughly half of the input range. 24 bit puts the digital noise floor (the noise you get from the A/D converter deciding if it is silence or the 1st step above silence)48 dB lower than 16 bit.
You can gleefully record away without clipping very simply AND cleanly.
Now, if you are in fact depending on tape saturation for your sound - then probably you aren't satisfied with any of the simulated tape saturation plugins.
-Scott
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This is one of my points earlier. Probably 60-70% of posters on this forum have no clue about 16 bit vs 24 bit recording, how it works, what the interface has to do with it, don't know what recording "headroom" means, all that stuff. Oh, and the importance of mics and preamps as well.
Just one of many things to learn and being proficient in Windows has absolutely nothing to do with that, it's something you have to specifically understand about digital audio.
Bob
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I don't remember how this came about but"0" in a Daw is not "0" on an analog console. An analog console has about 26 Db of gain above 0 left.Or headroom if you prefer.A saw has no headroom at 0. That's it fini.
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To answer the original question for me it's not recording latency ,as direct input monitoring deals with that, it's latency in the action of the daw controls. I can't lower the buffer enough to have smooth fader moves and not have the tracks stutter.
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That's a function of your computer, interface, ASIO drivers and how it's all set up and it does not require some hot hotrodded machine either. Remember Mac posting like 15 years ago he was getting 5-6 milliseconds of latency? That's about the same latency as you hearing a guitar amp from 6 feet away or a pianist sitting at a grand piano. It's already been measured many times, it's about 5ms from the time the pianist hits the key, the hammer hits the string and the speed of sound from the string to the ear. 5ms. IOW, it's unnoticable so it's all on us. Like I said before, we have to learn enough about PC's and DAW's to figure it out.
Bob
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Not to change anyone's mind because as a hobby, or at a level less than full time, being engineer, producer and artist is both challenging and fun. But I believe most people could make better music and more music using less complicated hardware recording devices than with DAW's.
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hi I don't remember how this came about but"0" in a Daw is not "0" on an analog console. An analog console has about 26 Db of gain above 0 left.Or headroom if you prefer.A saw has no headroom at 0. That's it fini. The difference here is due to completely different meter design and scaling. Analogue consoles have Vu meters, these show the rms voltage of the signal, scaled and expressed as power Db. Digital use pp (peak) meters and show the amount you can use before you run out of bits, hence the more head room between 16 and 24 bits as the range from noise floor to the peak is greater. Over simplified explanation but might help. Mike
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I must be very strange but I find using a DAW far easier than bouncing tracks and repeating parts time and again. Then putting up with hiss or a dry mouth noise (even worse with false teeth) or a myriad of other extraneous noises that found their way in.
When it comes to clipping Izotope has RX7 which has a De-Clip module that gets shy of some clipping albeit not perfect. I tried it today on something I recorded too hot about 10 years ago and was blown away by the result. (I have been waiting for the price on RX7 to come down. Yesterday Pluginboutique (Izotope also) offered an upgrade from Ozone 8 Advanced to the Production Suite for US$149. I took up the Pluginboutique offer as the included Izotope Iris 2 free)
Tony
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Ditto on the learning curve. There is so much and it never seems to end.
Regarding latency, I was never smart enough to get the right setting on RB. When I moved to Reaper, the defaults worked great and I didn't ask questions, just accepted it. Others on this forum have done very well dealing with latency using RB, so you might want to ask what settings they use.
2b
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Right Mike. Just wonder why it was designed that way. It could have been designed the same as an analog console so that 0 still gave you some digital head room if you will.
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OK so... 2 things...
Latency. If you are using a good interface and it can run native (real) ASIO and not a wrapper on MME.... you should NOT have any sort of latency issues that affect your ability to record and playback with good real-time sync. When people say they have bad latency ( anything they can hear that affects their ability to record easily), I always ask what interface and driver they are using.
Annoying things:
Crashes..... but in the old tape days, the tape would jump off the reel and wind around the spindle.
Updates and obsolescence of software with respect to the new hardware and operating systems.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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+1 for the easy wonders of Izotope’s products (and their guide to mastering).
And I think Bob (jazzmammal) has a point: 70% of users don’t understand 59% of these concepts 78% of the time. But my figures might be wrong...
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As, I suppose, one of those in the alluded to percentage bereft of advanced recording technological knowledge I can only speak from experience. Before I upgraded my RAM I was having latency issues requiring me to turn off plug-ins when recording a vocal and/or put Logic Pro X into a specific permutation of its low latency mode. Zero issues after the upgrade. A sample of one (me) may mean nothing but for me it worked. Nowadays I just want to record hassle free and have fun at it and let this wonderful digital technology work for me. Thank you PG Music, Logic Pro, Waves, Izotope and Focusrite. I may be a 73 year old curmudgeon but, counterintuitively, I don’t miss one aspect of my 45 years of analog recording. 
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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Come on Janice you don't miss splicing tape to rearrange the tune only to realize you cut in the wrong place?  in
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Come on Janice you don't miss splicing tape to rearrange the tune only to realize you cut in the wrong place? in Haha haha! My younger wife lends me her great ear All the time and is the most musical person I know but getting her to join in on a mix is like pulling teeth. Bud
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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73 eh? Me too, I'm 74 in November, I should update my avatar I guess but I have such a nice smile in this one. Hey Matt, make that concept number 60% and you got it...
Bob
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Wow! Thank you everyone who participated in the thread! It was simply an opinion based post, not a cry for help. It was an interesting read. Some posts are straight to the point, some humorous some "outside the box". Excellent tech views had been expressed on human level. I know exactly where my particular annoyance originates. I am a greedy recording slob and have dozens of instances of VST/Synths opened in the project, that is where the latency rat lives. I do have a decent card (Arturia Audiofuse) with real Asio driver written for it (not a wrapper) and I do have 32 GB of ram. This latency thing does not take away from creative process much, it is just an annoyance One of the most popular items was "clipping". I overcame this by reducing mic volume combined with a couple of singing techniques or just stepping away from mic on louder vocals. Still get them, but not terrible. I guess it is very different for instruments. P.S. Matt, loved the formula: "70% of users don’t understand 59% of these concepts 78% of the time." It is a perfect candidate to be tattooed on someone's back.
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<...snip...> That's why nearly 100% of the artists with any analog recording experience would immediately see an improvement in their recordings if they inserted a physical mixer/console into their recording chain. <...>
I run MIDI out of one older computer into a half dozen or more hardware synth modules. Since they all have essentially the same latency (+-5 or 6ms) mixing different synths to get the best sound for each part is no problem. I use a MIDI patch bay to route to the hardware synths and run the outputs to separate channels of an analog mixer. I like the analog because twiddling dials to balance is much quicker and easier than mousing. Plus I can do two at once. Then I take the output of the mixer, along with any analog I want to add (sax, flute, vocals) into the DAW on a newer computer. Some things work for me better using old analog tools, and others using new digital tools. It's best for me to have both. Note: I don't do recordings that I want to release to the world as my new single or album, mostly backing tracks for my duo or demo files for my BiaB styles. If I wanted to do that, I'd go to a pro studio with good acoustics and pro to take care of the recordings. Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Wow! Thank you everyone who participated in the thread! It was simply an opinion based post, not a cry for help. Right but realize we are replying to a much wider audience than just you. Who knows how many people from all over the world get some benefit from all these replies. See what you started? Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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<<< Some things work for me better using old analog tools, and others using new digital tools. >>>
Yes they do. Every so often I return to some of the older books, DVD's from many years ago especially if they pertain to functions of old hardware. I recently read a book published in the late 1980's about MIDI by Craig Anderton. In it's day, it was a very complete and detailed explanation of what midi is, how it works and how musicians use it to connect multiple pieces of gear together. Pro's were using equipment costing thousands of dollars to daisy-chain 4-5 single synths to create sounds a $49 keyboard can easily do today. It's a very complex book.
I just finished a second book last night that I'll be making a post about in a few minutes. From 1996, it's a book on home recording by award winning producer Peter McIan. The book is a technical, hands on book about using professional studio multi track recording techniques on a consumer 4 Track recorder. Only the content dealing with the physical limitations and physics of tape are obsolete. This is a book about sound and how to capture it cleanly. One has read 225 pages into the book before there's ever an instruction to hit the 'record' button. There are chapters on recording drums, bass, guitar and vocals. A chapter on microphones. After 216 pages of theory presented in lay terms, Mr. McIan begins a chapter that gives step by step instructions how to record and mixdown sixteen instruments onto a portable home studio machine. Each with it's own EQ, panning and special effects. The book is still in print because it's still relevant to the home recordist. Even if you use a DAW with unlimited tracks. Check out the post over in the Recording Thread.
Last edited by Charlie Fogle; 09/05/19 12:22 AM.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-9 includes 900 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). With over 3,500 styles (and 35 MIDI styles) included in Xtra Styles PAKs 1-20, the possibilities are endless!
Get the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Get Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 19 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Don’t miss this chance to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box setup—at a great price!
Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!
It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!
We've added many major new features to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, including advanced AI tools like the amazing BB Stem Splitter and AI Lyrics Generator, as well as VST3 plugin support, and Equalize Temp. Plus, there’s a new one-stop MIDI Patches Picker with over 1,100 MIDI patches to choose from, all neatly categorized by GM numbers. The MultiPicker Library is enhanced with tabs for the SongPicker, MIDI Patch Picker, Chord Builder, AI Lyrics Generator, and Song Titles Browser, and the tabs are organized into logical groups. The Audiophile Edition is enhanced with FLAC files , which are 60% smaller than AIFF files while maintaining identical audio quality, and now ships on a fast 1TB SSD, and much more!
Check out all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® here:
Purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac during our special to save up to 50% off your upgrade purchase and receive a FREE BONUS PAK of amazing new Add-ons. These include the 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK, Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana, Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes, MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano, Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7, Playable RealTracks Set 4, RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark, and more!
Upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and add 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and 20 RealStyles, FLAC Files for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks, Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster, MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster, Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8, and RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe.
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs!
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