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I found this to be quite an interesting article. Caveat, budget definition appears to be in eyes of the beholder. How to record an Album with a small budget!
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Very interesting concept and treatment, Charlie. Thanks for posting it. I couldn't find a sample of the music, but will keep an eye out.
I hadn't realized compression could be added to an incoming signal on the 24SD. Sounds good.
I found recently on the DP that the line in through a DX box sounds just as good as through the dedicated guitar in.
By the way, I like the entrepreneurial spirit of those musicians, don't you?
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I haven't heard any of the songs from this album though it was done back in 2013. I did look this guy up on YouTube and heard some live stuff. He's a top level musician.
Reading through the article he stated he had recouped nearly half of his investment in about a month. So he must have a substantial following. The way the article read and him not defining 'investment' left it up to supposition as the article lists 3 different investments; The first being the recording equipment. The second is the studio recording cost and the third the total project cost that includes marketing. So his recoupment on his investment can be anything from $500 - $22,500.
Line in through DX works great for sure. The DP-24 is my favorite recorder for sure.
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Charlie, The Recording Revolution has a video on setting up a home studio for $300: https://www.recordingrevolution.com/the-complete-300-home-studio-and-my-new-challenge/I thought you might like to view this. If you think I hijacked your thread just say so and I will delete this.
I got banned from Weight Watchers for dropping a bag of M&Ms on the floor.
It was the best game of Hungry Hippos I've ever seen!
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No Mario, you're not hijacking the thread at all. You are spot on. I'm a big fan and followed Graham Cochran for years. The same for Joe Gilder.
What was interesting in the article to me was the authors choice to use a stand alone digital multi track recorder over buying studio time or using his computer based Studio One Software run via a Presonus 1604 digital mixer. He tracked and mixed with the Tascam DP-24 and his total budget for the album was $45,000.
He made the choice to do so his focus could be on the music and not the technology. The current price for the Tascam DP-24 today is $469.99. Match that with monitors, headphones, a Rode NT!-A and Shure SM-57 and some miscellaneous mic stands, cables, etc and you've got a complete package for around $900.
I watched Graham's video and it was made in 2015. I updated his cost for the six items (his $300 value assumes one has a PC/Mac desktop/laptop) to today's cost.
The Presonus 2x2 USB interface is still $99 and the ADC/DAC is upgraded from 48 to 96Khz.
The Samson C01 is available in a package that includes headphones, mic stand, cable and carry case for $139.99
To match Graham's 2015 package and replace the Presonus interface with a Tascam DP-24 and the other items updated, comes to $610. Graham's system including a bare bones laptop for $200 comes to $640.
Pro's of Graham's system - Lot's of software options; portable; 96Khz; Huge track count and a more comprehensive DAW that the Tascam; Lot's of opportunity to expand system (add to your studio as your experience and needs increase ).
Con's of Graham's system - 2 inputs; potential latency; system crashes; software setup; limited hardware interface capability (no physical aux sends/rec; Huge software learning curve for Studio One; Limited and restricted free version of Studio One; PC not included; Lot's of opportunity to expand system (cost, temptation, eye candy ); Mixing more than a single channel at a time requires external hardware controller.
Pro's of the Tascam Multi track System: 8 Simultaneous channels for recording. Built in Hi-Z; Real faders and knobs; No PC needed. USB and SD card included for PC interface if desired. 48/24 DAC/ADC more than adequate for commercial recording projects; Comprehensive DAW, effects and dynamics included; Ease of Operation; More portable than Graham's system; Less of a learning curve; physical aux in/outs; The included DAW Software is comparable to Graham's included free software DAW. DP-24 has 8 virtual tracks per channel for 192 + 8 at mixdown = 200 available tracks with 32 available at mixdown. Each Stereo channel can store two prerecorded mono tracks; Better external hardware interfacing; Will operate as an 8 track mixer with effects; Operates as an 8 track field recorder; Capable to multi track record an entire band live; More stable than PC based DAW systems; Faster startup over PC DAWs; Less physical pieces and connections; Super easy to connect to transfer back and forth between the unit and a PC.
Con's of the Tascam Multi Track System: The DAW OS is not as full featured as software DAW's nor is it expandable; The screen is not as big as a PC or laptop monitor; A project larger than 32 Gigs will require another SD storage card; Editing is not as visual as a PC DAW; Not as prestigious and does not get the love like a PC DAW does...
I think more beginners and artists whose primary goal is to make music over becoming an engineer, mixer or producer are better served starting with a hardware, stand alone, digital multi track recorder over even a modest $500 software/audio interface system.
Last edited by Charlie Fogle; 12/10/19 07:01 AM.
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Charlie, that is an excellent comparison.
Your hardware recording suggestion is a good one.
Note that I would not suggest Studio One for a DAW. There are much better starting DAWs available that can handle VSTs. The basic Studio One will not handle VSTs without an upgrade. That, IMHO, is a big mistake! YMMV
I got banned from Weight Watchers for dropping a bag of M&Ms on the floor.
It was the best game of Hungry Hippos I've ever seen!
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This is turning out to be a very interesting discussion, Charlie and Mario. I hope you are able to keep it going for the benefit of new and with some experience. He has a good one on recording vocals. I can't get it to link. I would add the tutorials kind of skim over minimum systems requirements while going on about the $300 recording studio, as if you could hook up any computer and it would work. I found out the hard way that's not exactly true. https://musicianshq.com/laptop-specs-for-music-production-a-complete-guide/Maybe this: https://www.myrecordingrevolution.com/tutorial-recording-vocals
Last edited by edshaw; 12/11/19 08:45 PM.
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I don't agree with those minimal requirements, they are way to low, but he does redeem himself somewhat in the article. Also your requirements will depend on what programs you are going to use. A full blown DAW with lots of VSTis, plug-ins, and recording inputs require a lot bigger computer than if you are going to use only BiaB and RB as is. If you start using lots of VSTis and plug-ins in BiaB/RB your computer requirements increase also. I have helped others get good computers at a reasonable price by buying refurbished computers from TigerDirect.com. Out of a number of such computers only one had a problem and Tiger Direct replaced it immediately.
I got banned from Weight Watchers for dropping a bag of M&Ms on the floor.
It was the best game of Hungry Hippos I've ever seen!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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And we're clearly speaking of different priorities for home studios between an artist aspiring to be successful mainly as a singer/vocalist/musician than the one with aspiration to be a mixer, engineer, producer. The musician will need a few good Plug-ins not hundreds. That is the same reason I feel the DP-24 or 32 stands out from the rest of similar recorders made specific for multi track audio; It has the best OS for mixing/mastering tracks and the best layout for mixing over competitors like the Zoom R8,R16,R24. The reason is the DP- series have single layer access to the 24 tracks and 8 channels for tracking and mixing. The Zoom devices only for tracking. Devices like the Behringer XR series such as the XR12, 16, and 18 are good as well but they store the multi tracks to a PC. The new generation yield weight to mixing features and tracking and are designed and intended to move recorded tracks to a DAW for further processing. They will record a project from start to finish, but lack the sophistication and depth of stand alone multi tracks.
For tracking, any good multi track device will suffice. Zoom H4N, Tascam Dr-05 type devices have good pre-amps and can record up to 4 inputs can great Their design focus more toward live venue than studio recording. They lack some convenient features or have them hidden down deep in menus. However, at similar cost, devices designed more for studio audio recordings over live venue recordings are Tascam DP008, DP-03 are better choices. If cost is a major issue, the Tascam DP-03 is the most features that are similar to the DP-24 and would be my choice. The DP-03 is limited to 2 inputs and 8 Tracks but it has a lot better mixing, mastering options than other models.
I prefer the DP-24 over the DP-32 simply because I don't think the feature differences between the two units is worth the price difference.
I prefer my Zoom R24 over my DP-24 for use as a field recorder because of its portability, battery operation capability, size and built in mics. I have a Tascam DP004 that I keep in my guitar case for quick access when I have time to play and develop new song ideas.
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A) So, here in musicianshq we have an article that claims to spec minumum system requirements. As Mario confirms, it is "way too low." Where does this put the newbie? Into a cycle of ugrades, which is the precise reason that when I gave it a shot in 2002, I soon went back to the dedicated digital recorder. I still hear Apple pre sales, "Oh, sure, you can use a Mac laptop. No problem. Just get an interface and run Garage Band." It didn't work out well. That date tells you my personal knowledge is antiquated, along with my self in general.
B) This is not to mention the real possibility the budding media specialist might want to bring HD video into the picture, where working files routinely exceed 5-20 Gb. Nor does it address three very annoying features of the under powered -- latency, render times, and unstable timelines.
C) When I finally got around to a decent machine in 2009 it was over $2.8k. Intel 3.8i7, 1 primary and 2 secondary drives (total 1.5T) 40G RAM (not counting the memory on the HDs when available,) NVidea sound card and a 15" screen. The sales tech gave me what I needed, not what he wanted to sell me. It will last longer than I plan to.
D) Another never discussed aspect I have run into is follows: I have found, for various reasons, it is better for me to place video projects on an external drive, such as Seagate. 250G is a solid choice, though it is available in 1T. The DAW and the Video editor remain running on the primary HD. Work, both finished and in progress, is saved on the Seagate HD, $75 at Staples. The 250 is recommended for general media use, speed and reliablity. Incidentally, that media machine of mine hasn't been on line for several years. It is also the Band in a Box PC. And, no, it is not a matter of having run out of work space on those internal drives. It is more connected to the trend towards the same reasons self hosted apps are becoming more popular as the cloud continues to grow.
Last edited by edshaw; 12/12/19 07:40 AM.
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Good points Ed. Another consideration..... There's a big difference in required PC specs between a person that just casually uses BIAB and one that for example is a HD Video/Gamer PC. Most basic PCs/laptops that are new today can easily handle the requirements of BIAB. If you get into more advanced audio and video, you really need to up the game on specs and $$$.
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Hi Charlie,
I'm glad that you mentioned the Tascam DR-05. Those little units do a fantastic job recording, i.e. crystal clear recordings. The playback isn't so great though.
I have one that I use when BobH and I are jamming and my music computer either isn't on or set up to record. We also use it when we take our annual trip up north. We take our guitars and do a lot of playing there. The nice thing about the DR-05 is that you can take out the small SD card and load it into your computer. We have taken some of our jams and used them in my DAW, the recording is that good!
I got banned from Weight Watchers for dropping a bag of M&Ms on the floor.
It was the best game of Hungry Hippos I've ever seen!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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They are great recorders Mario. Their weakness is they are not optimized to track, edit and mix "in the box" but are wonderful for tracking audio that will be processed in a DAW. As a field recorder like you use it, no problem getting great recordings.
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