Just listened to the Johnny Hiland Styles/Real Tracks & there is something badly wrong. I can't exactly say what the problem is but they sound out of tune - what do you think?
Plus they sound like they were recorded in the next building - way too much reverb which means they cannot be added to a mix.
Best Regards Nigel
Nigel Spiers Christchurch, New Zealand info@nzacoustics.com
I just listened to RealTracks solos of 'ChickenPickinTrainJohnny' (3297), and I hear the discordance, but I'm not sure that this is or isn't deliberate. Like this song at the 1:23 mark.
'ChickenPickinWesternSwingJohnny' (3298) sounded OK.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
Just checking to be sure, but is the tempo of your song and the Real Track you're trying to use compatible? Generally speaking you get some wicked artifacts if you go too far outside the intended tempo range of the Real Track. The slower the tempo the more noticeable it is when trying to add a RT with a faster tempo. That's not always the case but I've found it to be so more often than not. When you say out of tune or discordant, that's what it makes me think.
I was right the first time - _CROSS and _BYROAD styles - the lead guitar is hopelessly out of tune regardless if you play the songs in their nominated BPM or not and also regardless of the key.
I continue to be amazed at the BIAB community - virtually none of them can hear errors in the real tracks and even when they do they don't comment, complain or even mention it. They also never complain when PG Music completely and totally ignore their requests for new Real Tracks.
This is pathetic and almost funny except when you remember you've just paid NZ $250 for these styles/real tracks.
Not that I expect PG Music to do anything about it as they have not rectified any of the faulty real tracks in the last 18 months.
Deeply dissapointing!
Nigel Spiers Christchurch, New Zealand info@nzacoustics.com
I did spot check Johnny Hiland RealTracks earlier and didn't encounter the problem that you seemed to be hearing. I didn't know from your description if it was something really subtle, or actual wrong notes, or what. Will check those specific styles that you mention. Any other specific details would be welcome. We update RealTracks on a regular basis. Every patch has updated RealTracks files.
I was right the first time - _CROSS and _BYROAD styles - the lead guitar is hopelessly out of tune regardless if you play the songs in their nominated BPM or not and also regardless of the key.
I continue to be amazed at the BIAB community - virtually none of them can hear errors in the real tracks and even when they do they don't comment, complain or even mention it. They also never complain when PG Music completely and totally ignore their requests for new Real Tracks.
Nigel, perhaps a little unfair. I took some time to explore and provided you with what I found. I even searched and found an example of what might have been what you experienced in the audition. I took quite a bit of time to do this.
Perhaps you need to be reminded that when you were right "the first time", you never even bothered to mention the names of any of the styles. Now you identify them. Why didn't you name them originally? You could save yourself some frustration by simply including specifics of your problem. It's not that hard.
Perhaps I am amazed at how this unpaid volunteering community is sometimes treated by other users.
There. I feel better.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
1. Subtle or just some notes - every note is wrong - it is like Johnny Hiland is playing in a completely different key to the rest of the band. 2. "We update RealTracks on a regular basis" - excellent - which Realtracks have been been updated for the 2020 release? 3. "Every patch has updated RealTracks files" - I'm not sure what this means - please explain in more detail.
Thanks & Best Regards Nigel
Nigel Spiers Christchurch, New Zealand info@nzacoustics.com
I ran the demo you mentioned and soloed the bass and lead guitar. Johnny is certainly all over the place, but not really in a bad way. Its blues! I did near some sour notes in a few places with a critical listen. So I ran it over into melodyn to see the individual pitches. For the very most part Key of E as claimed. Mostly major blues, with the occasional G (flat 3rd) A#(b5) C(b6). Take a look. Nothing really unusual for a blues player in my (limited) experience. But "hopelessly out of tune" - not what I heard.
Thanks for your analysis of the Johnny Hiland solo. I have re-listened to his _CROSS & BYROAD Style solos and included in the mix Real Tracks 3248 by Sol Philcox and 422 by Jack Pearson. As you will hear for your self there is night and day between these two guitarists and poor old Johnny's efforts.
I think I will just have to put it down to someone trying to play the blues who is simply not familiar with the genre. There are quite a number of Real Tracks that suffer from the same fate e.g. 3257 by Jim Clark and 3211 and 3292 by LD Miller. These Real Tracks don't have specific bugs in them but they simply don't work at all because the musicians are being asked to play in an unfamiliar genre.
The answer is to get some bone fide blues musicians into the Studio - Guitar - ask Buddy Guy, Horn Section - ask Roomful of Blues or the Fabulous Thunderbirds Horn Sections, Blues Harp - ask Kim Wilson.
Best Regards Nigel
Nigel Spiers Christchurch, New Zealand info@nzacoustics.com
OK, that is a quite a bit different than "...out of tune". You are certainly permitted to have a personal preference for the playing style of any of the artist. That is why there are so many to chose from, but we can't ($$) have them all.
Buddy is a Chicago guy. I run into him occasionally at his bar. He is 86 and still is seen playing, but I don't believe he is up for a trip to the west coast of Canada to record in the PGM studios. - but I do like where you are going with this - keep the fresh talent coming and we can sort it out with the yearly download of new RT's.
I ran through the same exercise as Dan this morning, including the Melodyne dump, and agree with his analysis. I did find a few places where a solo line resolved to the right note but that note was a few cents flat, which bugged me.
I do understand Nigel's last points: This RealTrack doesn't come off sounding very musical to me. And I KNOW Johnny can flat BLISTER a fretboard. But for whatever reason this one doesn't quite work.
There are a few things in BiaB that I just don't use for similar reasons. But I use BiaB every day just the same, and each year I get the Audiophile update on the first day it's offered. Awesome program.
The only thing possibly more awesome than the BiaB program is the BiaB forum. By far the most helpful community of people I've run into on the net...
DC Ron BiaB Audiophile Presonus Studio One ASUS I9-12900K DAW, 32 GB RAM Presonus Faderport 16 Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
The only thing possibly more awesome than the BiaB program is the BiaB forum. By far the most helpful community of people I've run into on the net...
Thanks DC Ron, you've restored my faith
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
1. "We update RealTracks on a regular basis" - excellent - which Realtracks have been been updated for the 2020 release? 2. "Every patch has updated RealTracks files" - I'm not sure what this means - please explain in more detail.
Thanks & Best Regards Nigel
Nigel Spiers Christchurch, New Zealand info@nzacoustics.com
About 200 RealTracks have had updates since the release of 2019, not including the new RealTracks released in 2020. These were included in the regular Band-in-a-Box patch updates during 2019, and are included with 2020. Typically the updates are in the ST2 database. The recorded audio rarely needs to be replaced. I'm not saying that the blues soloists can't be improved, I'm only clarifying that updates are ongoing unlike what you said earlier.
I look forward to checking out the Johnny Hiland Styles/Real Tracks mentioned when I get my 2020 upgrade (from 2018) next month.
Yes, Johnny is one of the best players around at the moment, I'm also looking forward to hearing his realtracks in a week or so. I always wait to do the upgrade until after Christmas (but before the end of the year so I can still get the good price
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MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
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MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
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- keep the fresh talent coming and we can sort it out with the yearly download of new RT's.
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