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RealBand
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Joined: Jul 2011
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OP
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 118 |
I have been experimenting with doubling my vocals. Does anyone have any input as to which method is better? So far I've tried:
Copy one mono track to another mono track and pan each to opposite side
Duplicating one track to another mono track and pan each to opposite side
Recording one track in Stereo and pan down the middle
Adding a uni track with the harmonizer and pan each to opposite side
I've found that there is very little difference except when I add the uni track with the harmonizer. I realize your answers may be simply a matter of your own preference but I would like to know. Input please?
Music is what feelings sound like.
Windows 11, Behringer UMC204HD Audio Interface, BIAB/RB 2022 Ultra Pak Plus
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RealBand
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My suggestion; actually double them. Record them twice.
And only then experiment with panning/FX
Rinse/repeat if needed
Maybe tune one and not the other
just tossing ideas out
Without hearing it, it's hard to suggest a route to improving them
What benefit/effect are you expecting?
I know, that's hard to answer, maybe an example of the desired result(?)
Last edited by rharv; 09/04/20 02:22 PM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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RealBand
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If using the duplicate or copy method, try offsetting one by a small amount, 5-10 ticks depending on tempo.
Vintage
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RealBand
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JohnF,
VintageGibson's suggestion to change the timing of one track works. Rharv's suggestion to record twice works.
Another suggestion is to alter the pitch of one of the tracks by a few cents.
May I ask a question concerning your first post? What difference do you mean when you said copy a track in one statement and duplicate a track in another statement?
One concern I have is the panning. When you pan one track far left and another track far right neither track occupies the middle. Not having a vocal in the middle may work fine for a backup vocal but will sound strange for a lead vocal.
Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk by BandLab (CbB) - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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RealBand
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I use the Waves Doubler:
https://www.guitarcenter.com/Waves/Doubler-Native-TDM-SG-Software-Download-1317253371509.gc?cntry=us&source=4WWRWXMP&msclkid=4f0381150fdf1644dd99de47e7176d7c&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=%5BADL%5D%20%5BGC%5D%20%5BPLA%5D%20%5BShopping%5D%20-%20(Pro%20Audio%20-%20Music%20Software)%20-%20%7BMQ%7D%20-%20%5BHV%5D&utm_term=4578984922302321&utm_content=%7BMQ%7D%20Pro%20Audio%20-%20Music%20Software%20(GC)%20(Bing)&adlclid=ADL-202934ca-0ad4-4a82-8843-9ed421981512
Doc-take it easy John this is just a sharp scalpel. It will not cut deep so don't worry.
Me-I'm not John
Doc-I know, I am!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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RealBand
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Joined: Jul 2011
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OP
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Thanks to all for the input. Jim, to answer your question, I was talking about copy and pasting the whole track to a different track. Seems I could achieve a slight offset to give the pasted track a slight delay or even a humanizing effect. I'll take your advice on the panning.
Music is what feelings sound like.
Windows 11, Behringer UMC204HD Audio Interface, BIAB/RB 2022 Ultra Pak Plus
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RealBand
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Mario, this is interesting. Can this be used live and not on a recorded track...similar to the TC Helicon units?
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2025, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
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RealBand
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I only use it in my DAW and I don't play live so I really don't know. I do know it is a plug-in so if you run your mic into a computer the out to a PA then it might be able to be used live, but again I don't know.
Doc-take it easy John this is just a sharp scalpel. It will not cut deep so don't worry.
Me-I'm not John
Doc-I know, I am!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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RealBand
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I have had success with a TC helicon voice live box. Use doubling or thickening.
Have also duplicated a track and panned the +5 and -5 the compress one and EQ or reverb the other to give a different dynamic.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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RealBand
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Expert
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Expert
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It may be worth looking into the presets of any reverb or delay FX plugins you have to see if there is a "doubling" preset. Fiddle from there, if there is, and see what about that effect is effective.  Doubling and hard-panning the tracks WITH the slight judicious offset mentioned will make it sound like there is a track center even if there isn't. I'm not sure treating them differently with other effects eliminates or accentuates that mirage. If it does, maybe three virtual tracks is an answer? If you sing it again for a doubling effect, remember that you don't have to use it end-to-end. Doubling important words, phrases, or sections may be enough to get the desired results. Same is true for any other method, I reckon.
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RealBand
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Joined: Apr 2020
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Journeyman
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I use Antares Vocal Doubler plugin in my Sonar. Singing the same track twice is sometimes very hard to do. It's hard to repeat the nuances. I suppose you could copy the lead vocal over to another track and EQ differently to get a doubling effect. Seems like a lot of work. In my case I rarely sing a song the same way twice. Especially if it's on a different day and I may feel different. Plus why sing out of tune twice LOL
Just kidding so please don't take offense. But in all honesty I found that the Antares or any doubler plugin (someone mentioned WAVES) will fill the bill and they are pretty inexpensive.
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RealBand
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Copy/nudge timing is one way.
Copy it and tune one is another.
Barry is a good enough vocalist that we can usually have him sing a second track fairly accurately, but for more effect we often tune one, which gives it just a little bit more variance.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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RealBand
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Apprentice
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Apprentice
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Hi All,
I tried copying vocal tracks then time shifting them etc.
Singing along with your vocal track but can be tedious. John Lennon didn't like doing it so EMI created a technique called ADT (Artificial Double Tracking))
"John particularly hated to manually double-track his voice, but did so because the end result made the record sound better. At his urging, EMI techie Ken Townsend invented a device that double-tracked a vocal by a delay method.... ADT (Artifical double tracking). John and EMI staff used this on most of his vocals during 1966-1968 era."
I use Abbey Road Reel ADT plugin on vocals and it sounds fantastic:)Using the effect a little goes a long way. Don't over do it.
Waves/Abbey Road Reel ADT is the first plugin to successfully emulate Abbey Road Studios’ pioneering process of Artificial Double Tracking. The effect that would become an integral part of Abbey Road’s signature sound was initially created at the famed studios in the 1960s to meet the needs of some very special clients: The Beatles.
Reel ADT puts the magic of that era in your hands within seconds. Using its intuitive controls, you can advance or delay the doubled signal to achieve genuine, lush-sounding delay and pitch variations. You can also drive each of the signals separately to add beautiful tape saturations.
With its authentic modeled valve tape machine sound and faithful emulation of wow and flutter, this extraordinary plugin can enhance any track with the impression of two separate takes, giving you results as close as possible to real double tracking. Other classic Abbey Road tape effects such as flanging and phasing can also be achieved with ease.
All the character, depth and panoramic sound of this inimitable classic effect can now be created digitally, simply and for real: Reel ADT.
Cheers and have fun experimenting!
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RealBand
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eddie1261
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eddie1261
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My suggestion; actually double them. Record them twice. Plus 100 to that answer. The idea of double tracking is to thicken and "fill" holes n the first take. Simply cloning the original will have the same holes in it. You can pan and add effects all you want but it won't putty those holes up. A second take will "humanize" them.
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RealBand
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Joined: Feb 2015
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Apprentice
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Hi All, Yes doubling your voice via singing along with the first vocal track is incredibly effective. Copying and pasting an identical region to play during the same section? All we’re doing is making that same exact vocal louder.
The problem is, the 2 vocal regions are identical. Which means there’s nothing to differentiate these 2 takes.
When you record 2 vocal takes for the same section, they may very well be almost identical. But there are all sorts of things that make them slightly different:
Minor timing differences
Minor pitch differences
The way the performer moves in front of the mic
The push and pull of guitar or bass strings
These tiny details cause different performances to sound distinct from one another. Which helps separate the different takes.
Hope this helps and as always happy recording 
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RealBand
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Joined: May 2020
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Product Manager
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Product Manager
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Duplicating and time-shifting a track slightly does work to some degree, but more often than not it adds phase issues.
Duplicating, time shifting, and hard panning typically ends up making the earlier side sound a little louder than the later side, as your brain perceives the time and pan shift to be the sound source moving to the side, so you may have slightly better results by duplicating, time shifting, hard panning, and reducing volume of the earlier side slightly.
For best results though, as others mentioned before me, record it twice. Nothing, absolutely nothing, works better than that.
I work here
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RealBand
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My suggestion; actually double them. Record them twice. Plus 100 to that answer. The idea of double tracking is to thicken and "fill" holes n the first take. Simply cloning the original will have the same holes in it. You can pan and add effects all you want but it won't putty those holes up. A second take will "humanize" them. Rharv's suggestion to record twice works best.
BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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