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I have been poking around in the super midi track demo folder.
I see many demos with three or four real tracks and one blue midi piano track.
What is the conceptual use of this arrangement? What special use can you put these tracks too?
Thanks,
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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One of the great things about the MIDI Supertracks is being able to use a vst instrument to get the same performance that a RealTrack provided. Particularly (for me) the pianos. In a recent song, I used 3 different sources for a piano track: An EZKeys track and 2 different BIAB MIDI Supertracks. Since they are all MIDI, I could apply the same piano module (the EZKeys Grand in this case) to the combined performance. If I had tried to use the EZKeys wav (export) and the 2 BIAB RealTracks they would likely all sound different. If there is a MIDI Supertrack available for a piano RealTrack, I always go with the MST because I can control what the piano sounds like. I have a number of good vst pianos and they all allow parameter tweaking. And I find that many of the piano RTs have effects on them that do not work in my mixes. It also allows you to edit the performance - which is not always possible with the RT. If you want, you can hear the 3 track example I referred to here: https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=618149&page=1
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I sometimes use jazz piano super tracks. The playing may be exuberant but as you say, editing is easy. I believe there is less repetition heard in a super track performance than in a RealTrack comping track.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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OK, what both Matt and Floyd said makes total sense to me. This is about mostly control and perhaps a better original performance and integration.
So I assume this is still all midi 1.0 standard. Nothing having to do with the new 2.0 standard that came out in January.
Sometimes things get named a certain way and if you don't know..."Midi Super Tracks"? What is "Super" about it? So now I know.
I also have several piano VST's.
I am not one to be super happy to set around regenerating tracks, especially not knowing if what I am looking for even exist. MIDI is still the least problematic way to adjust things.
I had a piano part that played an A chord when I had written an A7 chord. After about nine regens it plated the flat seven. Those are the sort of things that are confusing.
Thanks,
Billy
EDIT...Very beautiful song Mr.Floyd
Last edited by Planobilly; 10/07/20 06:52 AM.
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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MST > Logic Pro Grand Steinway is our go to piano.
Great feature.
Bud
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos
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I been thinking about buying Spectrasonics Keyscape Virtual Keyboard Collection. There bass vst is really good.
Anyone own it?
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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.................
Sometimes things get named a certain way and if you don't know..."Midi Super Tracks"? What is "Super" about it? So now I know.
........................
Thanks,
Billy
What is super about MIDI Super Tracks, a very dumb name IMHO, is that they are not quantized. All BiaB MIDI tracks are quantized to 120 BPM. Non-quantized MIDI tracks have more feel via subtle timing variations that you can not get with 120 BPM quantizing. MIDI Super Tracks are MIDI's version of RTs, just a lot more modifiable.
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Band-in-a-Box midi typically is pattern based so if you're creating a three chord song the same pattern plays over each chord. MIDI SuperTracks are based on a midi recording of a musician performance.
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It appears to me that the midi super tracks could have been constructed at the real tracks sessions.
I have no idea what PG Music has actually done in their recording sessions. There are high quality hybrid pianos which produce both analog sound and midi information. There also exist high quality pianos that produce high quality digital sound and midi information. I own a digital piano that when I play it into my DAW the analog output goes into the A to D converter and and on to a track. The midi information is transmitted at the same time to another track.
It is also quite common for live acoustic drummers to have midi triggers on their drum kits and to produce both analog sound and electronic sound concurrently. I have gotten so used to hearing electronically produced drum sounds I actually prefer it in most cases. I personally don't like some of the real track drums in BIAB because they are on one track. That makes it extremely time consuming and sometime impossible to have the the level of control I would like.
Due to latency and other technical issues midi guitars have never been very popular. There are woodwind midi devices that also have many technical issues due in large part to the midi 1.0 specification. I have read that the new midi 2.0 specification may go a long way to resolving some of these issues.
The pattern based midi would and does produce a very generic comping arrangement while a performance based midi file would automatically be less generic. Anything can be done with midi to include creating a complete piano track one note at a time. It is fine to fix a few notes or chords you don't like. It is like punching in a few misplayed guitar parts. At some point all that is pointless. It becomes garbage in garbage out, more trouble to fix than to play again.
I find the blue "midi super tracks" to be much better than other midi tracks in BIAB.
My question was to try to understand if I am missing anything.
Cheers,
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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I find the blue "midi super tracks" to be much better than other midi tracks in BIAB.
My question was to try to understand if I am missing anything.
Cheers,
Billy
SMT's or MST's are one of the little known secret treasures of BIAB. But here is a downside. Once you realize how great these are you want to have them all. But over the years many of these were sold separately as add on paks so they are not all included in the "Everything Pak" when you purchase. Not sure a comprehensive listing exists?? A quick search of my drive says I have 254 MSTs
BIAB – 2026, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud.
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Billy, Jim gave you important information in the last sentence of his last post.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Besides the obvious advantage of being performed instead of programmed, MIDI SuperTracks have another important advantage. You are not bound by the instrument that the track was performed on. These tracks are only data and can be applied to the infinite number of patches available with todays modern synths and romplers.
The biggest drawback to RealTracks is that you are confined to the instrumentation that PG chooses to use. This is almost always traditional instrumentation. This may be fine for most forum members who tend to skew older. However, from time to time much has been made of the product not appealing to younger music makers and the look of the interface has been blamed. I believe it is not the interface, but the featured music that does not appeal to potential younger users.
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By the way, this isn't an Off-Topic question at all. It's very much regular BIAB, with some good information and discussion here.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Thanks Matt,
I think I understand all this pretty well now. I am going to render a midi super track and also a standard midi track to look at the midi information each contains. I think in Sonar there was a view that gave a list of the midi commands for a track.
The one thing I am not clear on is how the standard midi tracks were generated in the past.
Also I saw and I understand what Jim said. Jim has bees super helpful in getting me to under what can be done in BIAB that I want to do.
Where do I post these type of questions in the future?
Thanks,
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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Oh, I just thought there is valuable discussion about BIAB that might be missed by its being in this forum. The regular BIAB for Windows or BIAB for Mac product forums would be good.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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OK, thanks Matt...BB for windows next time.
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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