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Now its approaching that time again , wondering what will be added and the new real tracks etc.
This got me wondering to the actual age of our average Biab user, are we a dying breed is there new Blood etc.
Just a thought in a marketing sense ?.
win 10 64 bit 16gb,i7 chip, ssd 500gb, m-audio air, ,Roland BK-7M, 1000,shure sm7b,sonar,acid,mixcraft, variety of plugins.Sample tank 3,Kontakt. TC Helicon Voicelive 3 2 . https://beatmaster1.bandcamp.com/releases
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There's been a thread going for a while now on the BIAB Windows forum: BIAB 2021?
 Steve BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory
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eddie1261
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Still never even booted it up.
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Now its approaching that time again , wondering what will be added and the new real tracks etc.
This got me wondering to the actual age of our average Biab user, are we a dying breed is there new Blood etc.
Just a thought in a marketing sense ?. I would think 50 and upwards, and as regards new blood, plenty of people entering this age group.
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Thanks Steve
missed this thread will have a look !.
win 10 64 bit 16gb,i7 chip, ssd 500gb, m-audio air, ,Roland BK-7M, 1000,shure sm7b,sonar,acid,mixcraft, variety of plugins.Sample tank 3,Kontakt. TC Helicon Voicelive 3 2 . https://beatmaster1.bandcamp.com/releases
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Regarding "new blood", we have had more younger users picking up BIAB recently (possibly due to the pandemic). I agree, generally the crowd is the 50+ folks, but from customers I deal with I've noticed an increase of 40 and under folks. I just don't think they're big into forums.
I work here
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Simon, that's great news. Seriously.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Regarding "new blood", we have had more younger users picking up BIAB recently (possibly due to the pandemic). I agree, generally the crowd is the 50+ folks, but from customers I deal with I've noticed an increase of 40 and under folks. I just don't think they're big into forums. Good point Simon. Our friends range from late 30’s to 70’s. The younger folks are total social media while many of the older prefer the less transient aspects of forums. We are active on fb but like the more laid back atmosphere engendered by forums (at least the ones that moderate the trolls snd flamers). I like it when topics hang around for a while. I was once the admin of an active cycling forum but fb killed it. Later I was a mod on a very large history based board and the same thing happened. We are delighted that PG Music has chosen to keep their forums active! J&B
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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eddie1261
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With the new blood comes more questions though. When I was "that age" we all wanted to be The Beatles. Now every kid you meet is a "Rappa!! Layin' down the beats, yo!" So the depth of what the younger breed requires may neo be the same as the OGs. So many of the songs out there today are an 8 bar loop that never changes, with no bridge, no chorus... nothing. Just bad beat poetry over a bass heavy loop played in a minor key.
We are all at least familiar if not fans of Live From Daryl's House. I got to know Elliot Lewis because he does a lot of solo shows in the northeast Ohio area. We talked for almost a whole break about the show when Joe Walsh was on and he told me that the conversation that was cut to 6-7 minutes lasted over an hour and some of the stuff that was cut was pure gold, but not suitable for TV. One line in particular was after he discussed songwriting, and singled out a Beyonce song that had 5 writers and 4 producers. And what was cut was "For THAT piece of s**t? There was nothing to produce."
So I wonder how much the 20-30 somethings are actually beating this software up to the level that a lot of the OGs do? I mean I stretch and contract tempo, I transpose key, I insert blank bars, enter chords, and generate only those empty bars. And I get a TON of memory exception errors when the edit buffer gets full. Thus I have to save after every tine change, not knowing when it's going to crash on me and then I lose an hour of work. When that happens I just turn the computer off and go rant about it.
Also comes up is the BIAB/RB thing. Do BOTH have those same instabilities? The OG here has never tried RB because "BIAB works and it's what I started using 78 years ago when I bought it. And god forbid we try something new." I am the opposite. I never tried BIAB because I prefer the more DAW like feel of RB.
So it's just not the age demographic. It's the genres involved as well.
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Eddie, at the risk of getting you going... I am surprised that despite your acknowledgement of the instability associated with Real Band, you continue to use it for making your music. I feel safe to say that many of us knew about these issues long ago and moved on to more stable DAWs. And yes, BIAB is more stable for generating tracks. So the typical workflow many have adapted for years is BIAB-DAW. All the heavy lifting is done in the DAW which has the horsepower and features and functions to get the job done without all the drama and frustration. That's all I have to say on the matter... 
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud (Tip: No need to create a SC account to hear music - just hit ESC ).
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eddie1261
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Nothing else generates tracks. Once I have tracks I move it along to Pro Tools. It's during the "heavy lifting" I have the problems. I beat up songs in progress REALLY bad. I can't tell Pro Tools to create another guitar solo for me, and I am not going to bounce back and forth. I am more like "Real Band, finish what you do and I will move on."
Much like girlfriends. Finish what I need from you and I'll move on to the next one....
Last edited by eddie1261; 11/26/20 09:04 AM.
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Regarding "new blood", we have had more younger users picking up BIAB recently (possibly due to the pandemic). I agree, generally the crowd is the 50+ folks, but from customers I deal with I've noticed an increase of 40 and under folks. I just don't think they're big into forums. Good point Simon. Our friends range from late 30’s to 70’s. The younger folks are total social media while many of the older prefer the less transient aspects of forums. We are active on fb but like the more laid back atmosphere engendered by forums (at least the ones that moderate the trolls snd flamers). I like it when topics hang around for a while. I was once the admin of an active cycling forum but fb killed it. Later I was a mod on a very large history based board and the same thing happened. We are delighted that PG Music has chosen to keep their forums active! J&B I'm 36 and use BIAB, in case that helps. I think I'm firmly in the middle with the forum vs social media, in that (outside of my profession) I rarely engage in either. Perhaps I'm just old enough to avoid Facebook, just young enough to avoid forums.
I work here
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PG holds a very special niche based on fundamental western genres of past 80+ years: Blues, Rock, Country, Pop, Rock, Jazz, Folk Afro-Cuban, World, etc. It is a good idea to expand on genres, but I think there is no reason to reinvent the wheel. Younger or older audience, if they like quality, would appreciate what BIAB has to offer, even if they use only segments of it in their compositions. I think one of the biggest and easiest to resolve issues with BIAB to make it more "inviting" are menu design(s) and amount of these menus. Endless scattered boxes... Veterans users in most cases do not care about these and for the matter of conversation, I can "live" with it as well. But I am 99% sure it is very discouraging to many new users. Clean up, consolidate menus, make boxes/buttons look "pretty". Have basic/advanced views. It is easy-peasy stuff that should bring results. I am just a little concerned that such a powerful program is taking a hit from such ridiculously minor things. In any case, I wish all the best to the PG crew and patiently waiting and saving for 2021 release 
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Your verb is the key. Pro Tools is for mixing music. Real Band is for making it, making meaning "creating/writing/composing and then playing". Band In A Box should be renamed as "Not Havin To Deal With Jackazz Musicians Who Show Up Late And Drunk For Every Rehearsal". Though BIAB is easier to say than "NHTDWJMWSULADFER". That's the main reason I was drawn to the stuff. If I want to work tomorrow night at 1:30am, I can do it. I don't have to coordinate schedules and hope the musician shows up. I also don't have to listen to him whine when I want another take, tell him I am not interested in his opinions of MY songs, and to play what I tell him to play and STFU. Plus, the software can create better stuff than most of the local level players I could call in anyway. You already know what a day at the beach I am, right?
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I am installing it right now and I hope this $200 was worth it.
Just a thought relating to all the ranting on another thread about selling on an installable hard drive. I may do this just to see.... I have an old version on hard drive. I MAY just try to format the old one and install 2021 on that drive just to test the data throughput of this installation on my C:\ drive and the one that is running through a USB port. That may give some answers to that topic. Has anybody else tried that yet?
Also Simon's point that it isn't going to happen because of the number of laptop users, and Mario's counter that it could be an option, and not one or the other, deserves attention. What exactly is the objection with the installation process as it is? The hour it takes to install it? IF that is it, all I can say is "Huh?" It's 60 minutes of the 525,600 minutes that make up a year!
So... let's say they do it. They offer copies on a hard drive ready to be slipped into a drive slot on your computer. Point 1 is that it will only apply to desktops. So market research on desktop vs laptop users would drive that part of the decision. Point 2 is user level. Many (maybe even most) know how to install a drive. But now you factor in whether the computer can accept one more SATA device. Of the 4 desktops I have, only 1 has an open SATA power supply pigtail. 2 have 2 hard drives and 2 DVD drives. One has 3 hard drives and a DVD drive. What would it do to the price if PG was supplying a 2tb 10,000 rpm hard drive vs this semi disposable external they send now? The throughput of the SATA data bus vs the USB 3.1 is close, but now you are adding the variable of people with older computers without USB 3.1 ports who would see less than optimal speed, which I assume is the end game here, unless the earlier question about whether it's just about the ease of use.
Then how about this. If they order X number of these 2tb 10,000 drives, and X-Y sell, what did they accomplish? They need to task somebody to format all those Y drives and load them up for the next year's version.
So from a business standpoint, I would not expect them to ever do this.
Now, the 2021 installation is almost done. Then on to the experiment!
EDIT:
That idea died on the table. The old version hard drive I have isn't big enough to hold the installation. It's only 148gb. I think it's from like 1947 or something. It still has a micro USB on it if that helps date it. It must be the Everything Pak, because it has a sticker on it that says EP. Probably from back before USB 3 too. And I think I downloaded 2019 and didn't get a hard drive.
Now if the fine folks at PG would send me a blank USB drive that they use these days I could still experiment. Not that I'm hinting or anything...
Last edited by eddie1261; 12/10/20 11:41 AM.
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Okay that experiment failed badly. I loaded 2021 and opened Real Band, only to find that either J-Bridge doesn't work anymore, that I have to run it again and don't remember how, that I have to buy another copy, or that I just can't use my VSTs anymore, because the only executable for Real Band is 64 bit and my plugins are 32 bit. Here we go again..... 200 bucks later and I may have to revert to 2019.
Why is it never easy for me? There's ALWAYS something to give me heartburn.
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Okay that experiment failed badly. I loaded 2021 and opened Real Band, only to find that either J-Bridge doesn't work anymore, that I have to run it again and don't remember how, that I have to buy another copy, or that I just can't use my VSTs anymore, because the only executable for Real Band is 64 bit and my plugins are 32 bit. Here we go again..... 200 bucks later and I may have to revert to 2019.
Why is it never easy for me? There's ALWAYS something to give me heartburn. It ain't just you. BTW, you can get a free upgrade for jbridge here, https://jstuff.wordpress.com/jbridge/updates/
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Okay that experiment failed badly. I loaded 2021 and opened Real Band, only to find that either J-Bridge doesn't work anymore, that I have to run it again and don't remember how, that I have to buy another copy, or that I just can't use my VSTs anymore, because the only executable for Real Band is 64 bit and my plugins are 32 bit. Here we go again..... 200 bucks later and I may have to revert to 2019.
Why is it never easy for me? There's ALWAYS something to give me heartburn. Eddie, I think you're the one giving yourself heartburn. As you well know, the whole 64 bit upgrade happened a long time ago. It's not PG Music's fault they're using current technology.
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My 2019 had only a 32 bit version of Real Band. I chatted with support and the suggestion was to uninstall 2021 and put back the old version.. I just sighed and ended the chat. I now have to check and see if the plugin upstairs is 32 or 64. If I recall I had a problem last year or so because I had loaded the 64 bit TTS-1. I reloaded all of Cakewalk's plugins and made sure I ran 32 bit. Now I MUST run 64 so I have to do that whole dance again. Unless the Cakewalk loaded upstairs is 64 bits and then I can just copy the dll files. But for right now, I'm watching football.
Well I have had 2021 for about 8 hour snow and so far it has been a waste of $200. Nothing works that worked before. None of my plugins work. Every one of them says it's not a valid plugin. It was valid yesterday when I had 2019, but not on the new and improved 2021. I am going to play with this tomorrow and if I can't get it to work I will go back to 2019 and stay there forever, right after which I will go out to the garage and hit this hard drive with my sledgehammer 200 times, one for every dollar I wasted thinking it would be better. I chatted with support looking for support and got brushed off and told to go back to 2019. Which I will do. And they can keep my money. I'll call it a lesson in trusting that businesses have their customer's best interests at heart. Because this one clearly doesn't.
Last edited by eddie1261; 12/10/20 05:28 PM.
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Okay that experiment failed badly. I loaded 2021 and opened Real Band, only to find that either J-Bridge doesn't work anymore, that I have to run it again and don't remember how, that I have to buy another copy, or that I just can't use my VSTs anymore, because the only executable for Real Band is 64 bit and my plugins are 32 bit. Here we go again..... 200 bucks later and I may have to revert to 2019.
Why is it never easy for me? There's ALWAYS something to give me heartburn. Eddie, I think you're the one giving yourself heartburn. As you well know, the whole 64 bit upgrade happened a long time ago. It's not PG Music's fault they're using current technology. My 2019 was 32 bit. And all my plugins worked. Now none of them do. Not one. Because Real Band is 64 bot now. JBridge is as worthless as boobs on a bull if it doesn't work. And it doesn't. I don't understand how neither 32 bit or 64 bit plugins don't work. One or the other should.
Last edited by eddie1261; 12/10/20 05:49 PM.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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