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Songwriting
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Joined: Nov 2020
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I'm writing a song in F major.
That means the A minor is IIIm7, and of course is phrygian!
Using Am or Am7 or even Am11 - there shouldn't be a 9.
(because the 9 would be a B natural which is not part of F major diatonic)
But BIAB always adds the 9 (that is the B natural) to the chord,
which is a "wrong" note - a sounds terrible.
Is there a way to enter a (phrygian) minor chord without the 9 (but still the 7 and/or the 11) ???
PS
Also cannnot use Am6, because the 6 would be the f#, and f# is not part of phrygian mode.
Last edited by blackpocus; 11/26/20 08:13 AM.
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Songwriting
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Welcome to the forum.
Interesting question. I tried Am7(b9) but BIAB doesn't accept that chord.
I don't know.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Songwriting
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Interesting question. I tried Am7(b9) but BIAB doesn't accept that chord.
Even if that works, it would sound like C 13. We need something like "Am11 no 9" Like some Songs have harmonies like "Em9 no b7". It's getting close to quartal/quintal harmonies, which btw also doesn't work in BIAB.
Last edited by blackpocus; 11/26/20 12:41 PM.
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Songwriting
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Are you trying to stay in BIAB or are you willing to go into your DAW. I think you have seen the limitations of BIAB when you try to specify voicings or these model extensions. I agree with you "...don't work in BIAB".
Ya, there are workarounds, but the bottom line is BIAB was simply not designed for this fine detail. That doesn't stop you using the strengths of BIAB to do the grunt work to layout your arrangement and accompaniments. But this fine tuning needs to go to your DAW. And of course forget about RTs. This needs a midi solution. I write and edit my extended chordal arrangements in Scaler2 which gives you this control over the chordal notes. Then I combine the BIAB tracks with Scaler chords in Reaper.
Just a suggestion others may have other ideas.
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD, 2TB WDC Blue SSD, 1TB WD Blue, 2 TB SK NVMe, 6 TB External, Motu Audio Express 6x6
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MIDI, yes, or Melodyne for audio.
From within BIAB, the first thing I would try is to turn off Natural Arrangement. It won't give you all the pitches you are looking for, but it may reduce pitches you definitely do not want.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Not sure exactly the sound you're looking for, but you might try Am/G which would be an inverted Am7. The notes would be G A C E.
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Not sure exactly the sound you're looking for, but you might try Am/G which would be an inverted Am7. The notes would be G A C E.
I'm looking for Am7 - phrygian. Phrygian mode doesn't allow the b9 as extension, but the 11. The notes are: a - c - e - g - d. For example: a song in F major using strictly diatonic chords and diatonic harmonies: the melody could be like: a-g-a-bb-c the harmony: Am7 (IIIm7 - phrygian) BIAB generates always (dorian) m7 with the 9, the b-natural ! (That in fact is an unwanted change of the key) The b-natural in the comping and the b-flat in the melody of course clash and sound terrible. I tried C69/A (c-e-g-a-d) and D9sus4/A (d-g-a-c-e), but BIAB in both cases add the B-natural. (For C69 this is simply wrong, because C6 means 6 instead of maj7 - for D9sus4 it's possible) Is there a way to enter the voicings/harmonies I want and F4 doesn't overwrite them ?
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Didn't this answer your question? .... you have seen the limitations of BIAB when you try to specify voicings or these modal extensions "...don't work in BIAB".
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD, 2TB WDC Blue SSD, 1TB WD Blue, 2 TB SK NVMe, 6 TB External, Motu Audio Express 6x6
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I don't understand any of this! But I love Friggin' Minor chords!! 
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New in BIAB 2021
• Auto-Fix "sour" notes - out-of-tune notes in RealTracks will be auto corrected to match chord tones.
Not sure what this is but am wondering if this is an attempt to address voicings and chordal extensions??
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD, 2TB WDC Blue SSD, 1TB WD Blue, 2 TB SK NVMe, 6 TB External, Motu Audio Express 6x6
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MIDI, yes, or Melodyne for audio.
From within BIAB, the first thing I would try is to turn off Natural Arrangement. It won't give you all the pitches you are looking for, but it may reduce pitches you definitely do not want.
THIS^^^^ Melodyne ( the polyphonic version ) lets you work with audio in the polyphonic world. I have melodyne and have used it to change one note in a piano chord. It works well for this purpose. Better, actually at removing the note totally or changing one note a half step or so..... verses changing the whole chord.... but yes, this is a solution. Sometimes you are just going to have to think and work out of the box to get things done. AS great as BiaB is, there are somethings it simply won't be able to do easily. Another option.... and I've done this as well.... make TWO copies of the song using the same chords. Change the key signature in one of them to allow it to create that ONE CHORD accurately. Then use a DAW to gene splice the correct chord into the proper place in the song where everything else is correct except that one errant chord. Like I said... think out of the box.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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I'm certainly risking revealing my profound ignorance of advanced theory with this, but whatever:
Is your melody (or piece of the melody) in an actual Phrygian scale? F Phrygian?
The 3rd degree of a Phrygian scale is flatted, compared to Major. The III chord from harmonizing a Phrygian scale is a flatted Major chord, not a minor chord at all.
If your issue is that certain real tracks may be playing a note that clashes with your melody, then the above advice from others is excellent. It MAY be, though, that your harmony (or the spelling of your harmony) is more at fault.
https://scottdavies.net/chords_and_scales/music.html?root=-1&accidentals=2&q=C+G+A+A%E2%99%AF%2FB%E2%99%AD&hide_instructions=0
or:
https://scottdavies.net/chords_and_scales/music.html?root=-1&accidentals=0&q=C+D+E+G+A+A%E2%99%AF&hide_instructions=0
Confidence is high that any of those that contain a Bb will avoid the B even as a "flavor" note. Confidence is mixed that some may not instead introduce other undesired notes. Confidence is guarded that any particular Real Track may have some of the higher extension "jazzier" chords in repertoire, but who knows?
And if I'm missing or misunderstanding something altogether, feel free to ignore or call me rude names.
Last edited by Tangmo; 11/28/20 12:19 PM.
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Songwriting
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Is your melody (or piece of the melody) in an actual Phrygian scale? F Phrygian?
I'm writing a song in F major.
That means the A minor is IIIm7, and of course is phrygian!
The melody is phrygian related to the A minor harmony. Don't forget, the a-phrygian scale consists of the same notes as the f-ionian scale ... But the issue here is, that BIAB treats every minor chord as dorian.
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- What are your 'Natural Arrangements' setting for the specific song?
- Have you tried generating the song with Natural Arrangements 'On' and did that change your results?
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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OK, I kind of almost barely understand now.  I still think those links might be useful to you to find a substitute spelling. One link is for the notes listed in your sample melody, the other for the notes in that scale you listed. Especially true if you add a slash note. Good luck.
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