IOW, what does RealBand do that BIAB doesn't do already? I am not being flippant, I am intrigued by RealBand but, not having used it yet, I want to know exactly how I would make use of it in a way that is above and beyond BIAB.
the GUI is the clue as far as i'm concerned. with RB you can see everything up front. you can see all the separate tracks - as many as 48 which is many more than BIAB.
rather than keep regenerating tracks at random in BIAB hoping you get it right and then freezing it, you can generate alternate RealTrack 'takes' in RB and then with them all in view cut and past the bits you like to produce exactly what you want. and if you want to replace a short section multiriffs allows you to generate seven different versions and choose the one you like.
different windows are so useful - chords, mixer, tracks, all more easily interpreted and easier to tweak and work with than BIAB.
BIAB is amazing but to get it to do things other than its basic auto accompaniment function you need to dig down into its internal workings.
just read some of the advice as to how to do things that run to almost a page on the BIAB forum - look at how people are still having trouble with the mixer and utility tracks. i often post that what they want to do is so simple in RB.
as i said the GUI is the clue - everything you want to do is there in front of you. and of course you get the full functionality of BIAB for generating midi, RealTracks and mid supertracks.
rough out a song in BIAB then do the heavy lifting in RB. the two programs work amazingly well together.
Bob. for me i find when in the beginning arrangeing phase of a song that i can work faster in bb, because the constant waveform redraws arent taking place like rb. which is why in the rb wishlist i asked for a turning off redraws option. i wish people would support this. twould make life much easier for rb users. THEN do redraws when arrangeing in rb was done.
i would use rb lots more if i could turn off the darn waveform redraws. instead , what i often do is generate a bunch of rt's audio traks in biab and then plop them into reaper where i can move audio "bits" around very very fast.
rb is a great tool , but needs a turn off draws option because one can always use the old i guess from early days "bars view" to move audio around. (rb bars view is a a secret weapon imho.) i just find certain things cumbersome. rb could be superb with a few subtle enhancements. best. muso.
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 02/06/2101:40 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
For me these three items make it much better to work in
RB - songs are linear and it has a more DAW like workflow You get more tracks that are more flexible and the killer is Time Signatures .. RB will work with whatever legitimate time signature you want.
Plus Multiriffs is a cool feature and the ACW in RB is in my opinion better (due to better time signature and tempo accuracy support). I have no idea what the wave redraw issue is mentioned above, sounds like a graphics driver problem.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!
wave redraws don't bother me either - maybe muso can tell us what he means - and when you open a BIAB song the automatic change to linear structure is great for tinkering with bits of the song.
as long as i have the structure in BIAB i go straight to RB. the only reason i went back to BIAB recently was a tempo change for the end of the song which was a doddle in BIAB but i'm sure i could easily have done it in RB.
sometimes i go back to BIAB to audition different styles if I want to add a midi track and need quickly to find a style with the kind of midi track i like.
together the two programs work really well together. i feel sorry for mac users who don't get RB - its like Raquel Welch with only one breast........
Bob n Rharv. nope. my pc is highly optimised i5 ssd system. its always been an issue on various systems going back years with rb. irrespective of set up. ive run tests also on powerhouse pc's. heres the test i just did. 1. imported a biab song. generation + waveform draws took like 30 secs. 2. then i regenned a trak from a gtr rt to a organ rt. same deal waiting for redraw of new organ trak. i'm on latest rb 2020 version.
my issue is, in both examples above biab would be off and running /playing way way before rb.
maybe things are diff in rb 21 ?
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
i think the difference is that BIAB starts playing before everything is generated. RB doesn't which i presume is just the way RB works. as it displays the complete wave form it needs to do everything before it starts. it's not the drawing, it's the generation.
when i cut and paste already generated audio it's instant but new material i agree takes a little longer but i've never thought it was a problem - just the way things are in RB as opposed to BIAB
Correct, RB generates everything before playing. I believe it also uses a temp audio directory so it is able to undo/redo (once saved as a SEQ file). Does BiaB allow that? I recall regretting regenrating in BiaB as the old track was gone once I did.
It's not the redraw, it's doing all the work before starting play.It does so so it can do other things, like Multiriff generation, generate a given section on any track(s), etc. Also BiaB doesn't display all the waveforms while it plays/generates, as far as I know.
Biab is made to be simpler/faster, but there is always a tradeoff. Also "my pc is highly optimised i5 ssd system" says nothing about graphics drivers .. but that no longer appears to be the issue, it's the different workflow you don't like.
Last edited by rharv; 02/06/2104:12 AM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!
Rharv/Bob dont get me wrong my fellow users. RB has a LOT to commend it.
just little "niggles" that have bugged me over the years. so what i do is, instead, in biab , heres my workflow. 1. i ruff out a basic song arrangement. save it. 2. THEN believe it or not !! i actually audition EVERY SINGLE INSTRUMENT RT and midi (takes a long time !) to see what little accidental "sound pictures" get genned. i might save 50 bb files all with different instrumentation, but same basic original arrangement/chords ive entered.
i NEVER keep to the plain vanilla ways/methods. cos my way i get pleasant accidents. for example i'm doing a song right now (bit different for me) and used steppin out as the beginning BASE STYLE, BUT all the chords and instrumentation is diff. ive saved about 30 audio traks so far from RT's. with a base stereo bed trak.
i import lots into rb and/or reaps for added experimentation. add my vocs voila . but i use reaps lots of times cos of automation // editing tricks and also the waveform redraws are BAM! INSTANT. its difficult to describe.
as i said i'm not knocking RB , ive used it a zillion times over the years. just "niggles". ps another little trick i use is EVERY SINGLE RT HAS ITS OWN PAGE WITH COMMENTS in 3 ring binder. so i can look up my favorite RT's comments. ie id no of RT followed by comments. 2 columns. when i updated to 2020 last year i went thru EVERY SINGLE RT and STYLE and MID IN DETAIL, and documented in my master binder. thousands of entries. ive developed tons of strategies over the years .
i'm sure ive used rb and biab in ways never intended lol. and different from the normal user. i do a lot of wacky songs and ideas. been doing this awhile. lol best muso.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
First of all, I'd have that info in digital form if I was going to document RTs to this extent. Secondly, I find trying new RTs on a given track much better in RB, where I can keep the original (just mute it) and generate it again on another blank track .. and another .. then 'comp' the bits I like from each to another final track.
As for having 50 BiaB files for a given song; in RB every time you save a SEQ file, it creates a backup file, so you always have the previous version, and the one before that. How many you have is controlled by you, as is how much disk space you want to allocate for them, and even whether to delete them or put in recycle bin when the quota is reached.
There are lots of such 'hidden' reasons I like RB/PT. I've had friends ask me to come help them figure out how they messed up a tune. The ones that used RB/PT are easy. I just ask "when was it last OK?" reply - "Tuesday night" my response - "OK let's just go back to Tuesday night". I restore the backup and 99% of the time everything is great.
The fact that RB does backups, and uses a 'Temp Audio Directory' to facilitate Undo/Redo are two huge reasons I prefer it over BiaB. The available extra tracks, ability to generate just sections of a track(s), using Multiriffs to hear a bunch of variations at once, and the Time Sig/Tempo advantages make it a no-brainer for me.
I agree this far; rough out an idea in BiaB (faster), but when you want to get surgical, add additional audio/MIDI tracks, and still be able to Generate RTs, I prefer RB at that point. Niggles? Sure .. mainly because it does things other programs can't do, so you have to get used to the workflow. As a comparison, Photoshop can do awesome things, but it is NOT intuitive right off the bat. You have to learn to use it. Once you do, you can compare others to it fairly, but until then, you simply don't know. RB is that kind of tool; it does things no other DAW can do, so it may seem to have 'niggles' at first .. though I'm not 100% sure I can actually define niggles ..
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!
Rharv. RE comping etc etc. yessiree , done it many times in RB. ive even got round here somewhere an ancient Powertraks from years ago. where i used to do all sorts of comping stuff. at that time, if i remember midi features in powertraks were better than pro tools. i can remember people commenting on that. just one reason i ran powertraks in the beginning. but its good of you to restate some of the neat features in case new users read the posts. your the RB king imho. best muso.
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 02/06/2101:37 PM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
not sure about doing it from the chords page but in tracks view you can generate any realdrums you like and cut and paste everything from a single bar to a complete track
and if you 'rough out' a song in BIAB as most of us do, i would think that if you open the BIAB file in RB you should get the drums you chose in BIAB - including part markers for multistyles.
i know RB regenerates BIAB tracks but you can of course drop and drag a BIAB tracks into RB as a wav file.
you could have 48 traks of drums if you wanted. but i think you get the idea. do various bed traks, add more solo traks, do a trak of just shots and so on. only limited by ones imagination. LET THERE BE DRUMS BIG HIT FOR SANDY NELSON. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC9okWm8A6o
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 02/08/2102:33 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
or, here's another trick muso made me think of - If you really want to get precise, many of the RDs have each drum recorded by itself at the end of the file. In Realband, these can be Cut/Pasted anywhere on any track, or used as 'samples' in a VSTi sample player.
On these tracks the sky is the limit. Create whatever drum pattern you want. <grin> I've only toyed with this for testing, as there is usually a RD track/variation that gets close enough, or gets used early enough to serve the purpose.
It's a different workflow (not done from the Chords window for example)
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!
Muso: I believe your issue is less of "drawing" the waveforms than "generating" the audio into RB. That procedure is much faster now that RealBand is 64-bit for 2021 and now supports SSE2, SSSE3, AVX, and AVX2 processor extensions which together speed up any DSP and generation by 4x - perhaps give it a try again if you have 2021, see if it works better for you.
Simon. re RB/2021 speed ups. thanks for the info. cos there are many rb features i really like. as you know i'm a long time pg user/proponent. and also highly respect the many pg staff, includeing yourself.
frankly i'm in the middle of a very difficult song i'm doing right now.
i'll be happy to upgrade when i see even a few of my biab and rb wishes addressed, as well as such items as the standalone biab plug in traks include pans and vols on all traks includeing utility traks. i really like that standalone.
best. muso.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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