My BiaB songs folder is getting full of 100mb+ wav files (audio/utility tracks). I don't need them to be uncompressed files. A high quality mp3 will be fine. Is there a way I can set it to save them as mp3 by default?
Don't really understand the problem here. It is two clicks to change from saving as a .wav to a .mp3. Also it is not something you would be doing very often since BIAB saves the entire song as a .sgu or.mgu which is very very small. So is that two clicks that you are trying to avoid when you render to audio?
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud (Tip: No need to create a SC account to hear music - just hit ESC ).
I mean BiaB is automatically creating separate .wav files for my audio and utility tracks for each song. I understand why it needs to do this, but I don't want them to be uncompressed wavs given just how much space they take up.
I don't mean the situation when I am purposely rendering to audio, that's fine.
When you save the song, the Utility tracks will be saved as audio files (.WAV) with the same name in the same folder. For example, if you save the song as MySong.MGU, Utility track #1 will be saved as MySong #1.WAV, Utility track #2 will be saved as MySong #2.WAV, etc. Then, next time you open MySong.MGU, these audio files will be loaded to the Utility tracks.
Others may know more.
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
I mean BiaB is automatically creating separate .wav files for my audio and utility tracks for each song. I understand why it needs to do this, but I don't want them to be uncompressed wavs given just how much space they take up
What, BIAB is not storing all that stuff on your HD, is it? I don't recall that ever happening. Is that only for the new Utility Tracks since 2021? Where is it storing this stuff so I can look? Or are you talking about the Drag&Drop file storage which you do have to empty at times or set to auto-empty.
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud (Tip: No need to create a SC account to hear music - just hit ESC ).
Oh, sorry. I see Trevor has answered my question. Sorry for the confusion, these utility tracks are new to me too. And I agree, this is not the best situation.
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud (Tip: No need to create a SC account to hear music - just hit ESC ).
It's good to know there's a workaround, thanks Charlie. Hopefully they will introduce an option to save them as mp3s in the first place to save on all those steps!
Oops, I accidentally deleted my post as I was doing additional testing. It also appears you can select a normal Legacy track, Save it as a Mp3 Performance Track (note that the song file must first be saved to save a Performance Track) - Close the file, remove the WAV and when you re-open the song file, again, it recognizes the Mp3 Performance Track and loads into Utility Track #1...
So, Mike02392, looks like all those steps aren't necessary except for saving the file and doing something with those WAV files in the folder. All the earlier steps were for testing only.
UPDATE: the below idea doesn't work so don't waste time trying it out. See my post below that explains this more fully.
If you use a program that will batch convert WAV to MP3, the MP3s will then load. One such program is Fre:Ac. It's free and it's available at the below URL.
Conversion to a Performance Track for an mp3 version of the utility track will only work on one track. That leaves all the other utility tracks to continue accumulating the large wave files. That is the price of trying to make BIAB into a DAW.
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud (Tip: No need to create a SC account to hear music - just hit ESC ).
Conversion to a Performance Track for an mp3 version of the utility track will only work on one track. That leave all the other utility tracks to continue accumulating the large wave files. That is the price of trying to make BIAB into a DAW.
Hi Dan.
After reading your post, I went and tested. Here's what I did and the results.
1. Loaded a WAV into Audio and Utility Track #1.
2. Used Fre:ac to batch convert the two WAV files in the song's directory to mp3s.
3. Deleted the original WAV files in the directory. The mp3s had exactly the same name with just the mp3 extension rather than WAV.
4. I opened BIAB. The two audio files didn't load automatically so I imported them into their respective track.
3. I saved the song and exited BIAB.
When I looked at the folder, the mp3s that I imported have now been converted back to WAV files.
Ergo... my process suggested above did not work.
It seems like Trevor's idea of making a wish is the best option.
It seems like Trevor's idea of making a wish is the best option.
Regards, Noel
Or we could just eliminate all these Utility Tracks. BIAB is not a DAW and we shouldn't treat it like one. Someone had to say it.... And to take this thought one step further lets see what those who are actively making music with BIAB have to say: Questions for our Song Writers
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud (Tip: No need to create a SC account to hear music - just hit ESC ).
It might be worthwhile putting this into the Wish List?
Perhaps an Options setting could be made available to choose between WAV and MP3 formats?
As long as the MP3 format is converted to 320 kbps, I'm supporting this. Otherwise, I still stick to my workflow:
- generate WAV files for my individual tracks (including Utility Tracks) - import them into my DAW - mix to my satisfaction - generate/export to a 320 kbps mp3 file - if I'm happy, I'll delete the individual WAV file tracks for the project - I am just left with my high quality mp3 file and I'm happy
That's been working for me for years.
JMHO
Last edited by MikeK; 03/21/2103:52 PM.
Cheers, Mike
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Or we could just eliminate all these Utility Tracks
Not intending to hijack this thread, but every track should have exactly the same functionality. Presently, some tracks only do certain things, other tracks only do other things. Consistency and Standardization would be the way to resolve all of these confounding issues.
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Or we could just eliminate all these Utility Tracks
Not intending to hijack this thread, but every track should have exactly the same functionality. Presently, some tracks only do certain things, other tracks only do other things. Consistency and Standardization would be the way to resolve all of these confounding issues.
I can't quickly find the thread (tired), but in one of the builds it was possible to choose a utility track and pick a RT from there. Don't know when that disappeared, but I know it was there at some point.
That's something I'd like to have back.
Last edited by MikeK; 03/21/2104:46 PM.
Cheers, Mike
My Music * Asus ROG Strix G15CF 32 GB DDR4 4TB HDD + 1 TB SSD NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 8GB Win 11 AKAI EIE PRO Sound Interface. BIAB/RB 2024 UltraPak Build - Latest
<< Conversion to a Performance Track for an mp3 version of the utility track will only work on one track. That leaves all the other utility tracks to continue accumulating the large wave files. That is the price of trying to make BIAB into a DAW. >>
I'm not following your line of thought. Any Track regardless if it's a normal Legacy Track or Utility Track can be converted to a Performance Track. But that's the simplest form of a Performance Track. With the introduction of Audio recording with BIAB 2015 for both PC and Mac, the inclusion of the "move audio to Performance Track" feature, BIAB became an "easy to use multi-tracking program". A DAW is software in which the DAW’s user interface replicates the same features of a multi-track tape recorder such as play, record, and other controls such as track controls, a mixer, faders, buses vu-meters and so on. So, BIAB is a DAW because DAW's replicate Multi-Track recorders which BIAB is.
My point is not to debate the definitions of BIAB, DAW and Multitrack recorders but to help you and nearly every other user of BIAB understand that with your purchase of BIAB in every version be it PC or Mac since 2015, the purchase price included a multitrack/DAW program...
Every feature other than the visibility factor of Utility Tracks introduced with the BIAB 2021 Utility Track feature has been possible since 2015! In prior years, what's now Utility Tracks were just audio files saved to a folder. That of course means that these "Utility Tracks" were not limited to only 16 Mixer Tracks. A user could save as many audio files limited only by available storage space.
I believe that most of the issues still being ironed out with the new Utility Tracks is because they are physical audio file tracks rather than virtual tracks like the original BIAB Mixer Tracks are. Since 2015, the Audio Channel in the BIAB Mixer has been the only physical Track in the Mixer. Each of the other channels, Bass, Piano, Drums, Guitar, Strings, Melody and Soloist contained data and not audio. The audio produced is similar in concept to sound heard from a synthesizer playing MIDI data. Legacy Tracks hold instructions, not audio unless that track is altered by the Performance Track process. A RealTrack is the audio clip stored in a folder, not the data on a MIDI or RealTrack BIAB Mixer Channel. The Performance Track feature allows for each of the other 7 virtual channels to be converted to a format the BIAB Mixer recognizes to allow them to accept a physical audio file.
Because BIAB is a multitrack recorder and player, multitrack principles, techniques and processes apply to the program. Since 2015, BIAB has been capable of producing high quality mixes comprised of dozens of instruments onto dozens of tracks far exceeding the 8 physical tracks visible on the main screen interface.
Because of the multitrack capability of BIAB, the program offers some very powerful, complex arrangement and automatic features that most users are unaware of and mostly go unused. Applying multitrack techniques result in BIAB creating smooth transitions between Soloists and other instruments changing between sections, cross-fades, Fade-in's, fade-outs, eliminate abrupt ending and incorrect beginnings, applying grace notes starting a bar early as a lead in to an instrument beginning or ending. Each Channel allows up to 10 instruments per channel and allows them to be panned and audio balanced. Each Legacy Channel has a 10 channel sub mixer so a single render of a BIAB song can have up to 77 instruments. (PG Music advertises 70 but the sub-Mixer includes the original channel plus the 10 additional sub-tracks.)
The Multitrack BIAB program supports bouncing and sub-mixes. Not only can a user place multiple instruments onto a Legacy Channel, but those multi instrument tracks can be rendered to a Stereo WAV file, imported onto the Audio Channel, converted to a Performance Track and moved onto a Legacy Channel. This process can be repeated multiple times and the final generated render will be a first generation production with no loss or reduction in the audio quality. BIAB's read ahead feature when rendering a track will work the same as the BIAB algorithm searches and selects appropriate forthcoming chord changes. The BIAB algorithm will search out and select appropriate intro and ending transitions between instruments residing on the same channel. With few exceptions, the rendered track will have smooth transitions, fade-in's, fade-out's and sometimes grace notes with both instruments playing simultaneously on the same bar as the transition between them is occurring producing a high quality, commercial grade track that requires multiple tracks and manual editing in a DAW.
The addition of the new Utility Tracks makes multitrack recording with BIAB easier than ever and is well worth the growing pains it's experiencing in my opinion.
Disclaimer: I have no idea how all of the above is done. I'm speculating. But it's of no consequence because simply by applying multitrack/DAW principles and techniques, the process works flawlessly and it's very stable.
Charlie, you had me going until I read "...the process works flawlessly and it's very stable." Sorry, we will just have to agree to disagree on the whole BIAB as a DAW claim.
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud (Tip: No need to create a SC account to hear music - just hit ESC ).
I think that Charlie's answer holds the key to why 'the program offers some very powerful, complex arrangement and automatic features that most users are unaware of and mostly go unused'.
BIAB needs complicated instructions to do things which are quite simple in RB and other DAWs.
"Since 2015, BIAB has been capable of producing high quality mixes comprised of dozens of instruments onto dozens of tracks far exceeding the 8 physical tracks visible on the main screen interface".
Yes it does, but its much easier to see everything in RB and not have stuff hidden under the hood. BIAB's interface is nothing like the most popular DAWs.
Charlie you're an expert user of BIAB but many of us prefer the simplicity of RB where nothing is hidden. And maybe the growing complexity of BIAB to make it do things DAWs do perfectly well is the reason we are getting so many problems and patches.
I'm not getting problems with BIAB 2021 because I use it for its basic function - auto accompaniment. With a rough track it's then time to move to RB. Problems seem to be arising with BIAB's new 'features'.
But everyone has their own workflow and I know Charlie's expertise has helped many people who prefer to stay in BIAB start to finish.
Charlie, you had me going until I read "...the process works flawlessly and it's very stable." Sorry, we will just have to agree to disagree on the whole BIAB as a DAW claim.
Interesting Thoughts. The "process that works flawlessly and is very stable" is BIAB's functionality as a multitrack recorder. I posted a link to a video where PG Music states BIAB functions as a multitrack recorder but I'm not aware they ever claimed it to be a DAW. Prior to the invention of the DAW in 1977, every record was recorded using multitrack principles, gear and techniques. BIAB meets the threshold to claim being a DAW because a DAW emulates and replicates the functions of a multitrack recorder not because it has the hundreds of various functions, buttons, VST slots and such.
My understanding of BIAB demos is they are programmed within the BIAB program and are not 'enhanced' by processing the tracks through a external DAW software so PG Music staff can showcase the natural capabilities of BIAB. Listen to the demos, they are not flawed and the Performance track feature does work flawlessly, I've never experienced a single failure saving a Performance Track.
BIAB treats programmed Bar settings done internally by the BIAB algorithm differently than Bar Settings done post Chord Chart manual programming and is more stable and seamlessly produces high quality, professional results in seconds -
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And to take this thought one step further lets see what those who are actively making music with BIAB have to say:
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