PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Off-Topic Going Live...what do I need?

Now that we seem to be coming to an end with the Covid pandemic, I'm thinking about reviving an old thought and playing live on the nursing home circuit. My mom really enjoyed the music when she was in a nursing home and I hope someday that would be available for me as well.

As you can see from my sig below, my system is setup for studio work. So the question is: How do I convert over to live work with minimal equipment and cost?

I recently acquired an Electro Voice Evolve 30m that has an 8 channel Dynacord mixer with bluetooth built in. For live use, I'm thinking about a keyboard, an external synth module with DIN from the motherboard, a couple of mics and an acoustic guitar. All audio outs would feed the mixer and I would run USB between the computer and the keyboard and module.

So my questions are:

1. How do I get away from the desktop computer? Laptop, notepad, chromebook? What processor (i5 or i7) is needed and what type of storage? I'm thinking SSD for programs and mechanical for RT / RD.

2. Since I'm running live and using a mixer, would my MOTU 828 interface even be needed since no recording is involved?

3. How would I run my saved songs with RT / RD's out of the computer with no interface, currently its all USB to the interface? Headphone jack out to the mixer? Bluetooth to the speakers? MP3 player?

Would appreciate some thoughts from some of you live players.

Jeff

Kinda stuck here guys. Anybody have any thoughts on how to make this happen?

Jeff

I have always asked this one question and the answer has always been "Because."

Here's the question.

WHY do people feel the need to run DAW type software in live situations? Just think about that for a minute. If you are playing live, and you are playing (just to name a song on that HATED list) Mustang Sally. You get a sense that the bass is not loud enough. What are you going to do about it? You are playing live. You can't tell the crowd "I am going to stop the song so I can boost the bass track and start over." The mixing aspect of the song is over with when you play live. You are going to play whatever it is. That being said, why not just compile them into good quality WAV files and play whatever you are going to add live to the WAV that you play back through the PA? Success comes from simplicity. The more variables you can remove, the less chance you have for failure. Why play drum tracks through a drum machine when they are the exact tracks that you recorded? That introduces the possibility of a drum machine failure to your process. And if you decide the bass on ol' Mustang Sally is too quiet, live with it that day, go back to your tracks in your home studio, boost the bass, render it again, and replace the one you don't like. Is it just a matter of thinking that the crowd will be wowed by the amount of gear you bring in?

My suggestion, my opinion (how sad that I have to add that disclaimer) is to dump those songs into WAV files, put them on a hard drive, and play them back through a powered mixer feeding 2 cabinets. The places you said you want to play simply won't care about anything other than you providing some much needed entertainment to break up their daily routine.

One of my friends, in fact the guy who engineered my CD, played shows for YEARS with an iPod of some flavor (a Nano maybe) that sat on his music stand and he played guitar and sang. The tracks he had created were as lush as any live performance I ever heard. He did a cover of Walk Away Renee with 8 layers of BGV, 4 synth tracks... The sound was huge. From his iPod. The HARD work was in his home studio where he recorded it all. but that really doesn't impress anybody. (He told me he spent 3 days JUST on the harmony singing on Walk Away Renee.) Now, this particular guy plays drums, bass, guitar, keyboards and has a 4 octave vocal range and has won some local award for his production and engineering, and his standards are so high that I would offer the opinion that the backing vocals were probably fine after 2 takes, but that is just an aside to explain how good you cam make things sound and play them from an iPod.

I once went with him to play in a place that wanted a duo, and the deal was that if I didn't know the song, I would just turn the volume on my keyboard down and fake play. The same with vocals. If I didn't feel comfortable hitting a note, I just silently mouthed it. AND at the end of the night I got paid!! LOL

Bottom line, KISS applies. Do your hard work at home.

This is the way I've been doing it for 10+- years.

I create my backing tracks in BIAB, and then move them as WAV files onto an SD card in my JamMan looper. The looper then gets plugged directly in to my Bose L1.

I have about 80 songs on the looper. Each song has a number, which I can scroll through using the looper's foot pedal. As a guitar player, I like having this "hands free" feature at gigs. As a back-up, I have all the songs on a small MP3 player, just in case.

I record backing tracks to my SONY portable recorder (which takes WAV and MP3 files). It’s an older unit that has RCA output jacks, because the one thing I will not do is run from a small headphone jack into my PA. Too much chance of loud crackling noises from those jacks.

Computer to the job? No.

I've been in a duo making my own backing tracks since 1985. Here is how I do it:

http://www.nortonmusic.com/backing_tracks.html

Eddie, Frank and Matt are doing it similarly.

The idea is to make your rig as fail-safe as possible. IMO Running BiaB live or a DAW is asking for an eventual crash.

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

It's been a long time since I played live.

But my advice is very similar to eddie's.


Keep it simple.

Nursing homes don't require big or complicated.

A simple mixer/amp combo, with a single speaker or perhaps a pair of small speakers.
Plug in a guitar or maybe a keyboard. If you play both.... I'd opt for the guitar. Straight to the board.

For the backing tracks, a simple iPod or mp3 player will work. Or, a decent laptop and play the waves. Mix the songs with the missing parts you're going to provide.

Keep it simple. I don't think anyone will complain.... Well, let me rephrase that... At least not about how you are doing the gig.

If you can't set up in less than 5 to 10 minutes and tear down in under 5.... You're doing it wrong.

The simple fact that you are willing to play in the nursing home is all that matters.

Keep it simple and go have fun.


Edit. I played with a prison ministry once a month for a few years. The church provided a small PA. I carried my mp3 player and my acoustic guitar with a piezo. I plugged both in and did my musical part.

This is great guys, really appreciate the input!

I'm hearing two take-aways here: use MP3's and use an USB audio interface rather than the computer's headphone jack.

Notes Norton's excellent write-up is based on his use of Lenovo laptops. That makes sense to me: running from the laptop to an audio interface. I like the idea of getting away from the computer all together as I only have a desktop computer. But that brings up a few more questions:

1. Can anyone make a recommendation on MP3 player units...I know nothing about these.

2. How are you running an MP3 player into your audio interface or are you going from the MP3 player directly to a small mixer or bluetooth to a mixer by passing an audio interface altogether.

Appreciate everyone's advice.

Jeff

The nice thing I like about laptops as opposed to an iPod or other tablet, is I can go from song to song instantly.

While playing a song in Windows Media Player I can hit Alt+Tab which brings me back to the File Explorer. Type a couple of letters and the next song is highlighted. Then when the song I'm playing is done, I hit Enter.

Between songs are as important as during songs, and this leaves me free to go to the next song immediately, make an announcement, or interact with an audience member between songs without my nose buried in a tablet or iPod type device.

When my mother-in-law was in a nursing home, we played a few gigs there. Play music that they like, probably Sinatra or Elvis era songs. Watch their reaction and go older or newer accordingly. Play songs they know by heart, and you will see a lot of them come alive while you are playing. It's heartwarming when that happens.

Dress neatly, be kind and courteous to everyone, ask the management to let you know about volume and other advice as they know their clients better than you do.

Pretty much the same as any gig, but with older tunes.

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

Zoom makes good units now. I like one that takes a WAV file as well as MP3 but it's not critical.

I just run the output of my MP3 player into my PA amp. The connections of course depend on what you have. That amp has two channels, one for my MP3 player and one for my mic, and so I just 'mix' with that.

I think Matt is talking about the Zoom LiveTrak, right? I've used the Zoom R8/R16/R24 in the past which are quite similar, and they would probably be the kind of device that would suit Mountainside's needs.

If I was doing this I would absolutely use a player rather than a computer. Why you ask? Okay, since you asked...

The computer is subject to internal processes which sometimes call an IRQ that for a tiny fraction of a second interrupt the stream of whatever is running. Even that quarter of a blink of an eye interruption is audible when what is running is a music player. An external player is not subject to that. However, you also then face the requirement of buying a high end enough stand alone player that has RCA outs because really, don't use a headphone jack if you can avoid it. I believe Matt said his has RCA outs to go to his PA system, so that model would be a great option. I'll just never forget how I went to play that gig with my friend. We started at 8. We arrived at 7:45, and we were ready to start on time. 2 speakers on fly poles, 2 power strips, his iPod, guitar and our 2 keyboard cabling as well as 2 mics, and we started. I knew about half the songs, more I was able to fake and play, but for maybe 25% I knew zero of it and faked it with either volumes off or lip syncing harmonies, and nobody in the crowd knew a thing. And at the end of the night he handed me 100 bucks and I went home. I'd do that 7 days a week if they were all like that!

I used to mix my own songs and ply them from my laptop, now I only do that for when I do a song or two as part of a show with multiple players.

To play a full set I use my iPad attached to my Mike stand bluetoothed to a Gemini tower speaker. The iPad has an app called Jamzone I have about 133 songs on it from old standards, to country to pop even a few rockers.

They come with scratch vocals I drop the volume on lead vocal and the acoustic guitar. The program is kinda like a karaoke type song with the exception that it has a mixer for each instrument . It scrolls the lyrics and chords. So you can reference the verses if you get lost. Sound quality is great and you can setup set folders if you want.

https://www.jamzone.com/

< 1. Can anyone make a recommendation on MP3 player units? >

Tascam vd-400U CD/SD/USB Player with Bluetooth
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CD400U--tascam-cd-400u-cd-sd-usb-player-with-bluetooth


This will run your show using most of the popular audio formats while recording your show. It has XLR balanced and RCA unbalanced analog outputs and an AM/FM tuner.
It's cheaper than the cost of a laptop and audio interface while saving setup time.

Will you guys PLEASE showing me all this great stuff??? I need to find a stopping point on this quest to be the guy who dies with the most toys!!

This isn't as easy as I thought. I just looked on Sweetwater at some portable Zoom recorders. I could not find one that did not have a 1/8" headphone/line out jack, and I personally would never buy that. My 12-year old SONY has RCA output jacks, and USB to load songs as .WAV files from my computer, so it still does what I want.

Looking on Sweetwater was disappointing. I want a unit with a nice easy-to-read multi-line display, with a menu system where I can easily and quickly find things, and a simple transport button system. I think if my SONY broke today, I would buy this, but it's pricey:
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PSD450mk2--superscope-psd450mk2

I definitely agree with avoiding the use of 1/8" audio jacks. Asking for trouble, no question. RCA is probably the most reliable and compact option.

Looking further, I think this Tascam unit would do, at a very modest cost: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DP03SD--tascam-dp-03sd-8-track-digital-portastudio

I use a pretty simple setup.

I have my songs in MP3 format on a laptop. I also have an amp sim (Overloud TH-U) on the laptop as well as a program called Songbook. The songs in Songbook have the lyrics and chords as well as a pointer to the MP3 file. Simply press start on the song and then the MP3 (from within the song) then sing and play along.

I have Songbook setup to scroll through lyrics and chords in time with the audio file that way I know where I’m at. (I’m getting old and might lose my way).

I have an audio interface (Presonus 24C) between the laptop and a PA System and a Behringer FCB1010 MIDI Foot controller hooked into the laptop (to control stomp boxes and volume into TH-U).

I plug my guitar into the Audio Interface. All my volume levels are sorted as well as the level of the guitar to backing. I usually have the songs I want for the gig in a folder in Songbook so it is a simple matter of going from song to song.

So the gear: a laptop, PA, Audio Interface, the FCB1010, guitar (Telecaster) and microphone (Shure SM58) , the stands and cables. And these days a chair as I have difficulty standing for long periods. Some of the gear is fairly new (I gave away most of my gear thinking I had retired) but the guitar for example is over 50 years old.

All quite simple and seems to work fine for my needs.

Tony

Dear all, I have just the same plan (playing in nursing homes). Playing is singing to a half-playback.
I do have some on an android tablet that have been made like a karaoke version (CD+G), where the lyrics scrool along in sync. No crap but made with Biab and a DAW.
I use the headphone jack to feed my small mixer that takes my mic on a second channel. The mixer employs an effect processor (mainly reverb and compression for my voice). The mixer feeds my power PA (amp build in).
This works well, at least in my garage.

I could use bluetooth to connect Tablet to mixer, but I preffer the cable. Having read all this good advice to avoid the tiny headphone connector, I started thinking about some interface that would use the usb connector of the tablet and provide more stable jacks on the other side.
Does such a device exist? Would the small usb jack be more reliable than the headphone jack? And wouldn't such interface add complexity and another point of failure?
What is your take?