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What i mean is that PTPA like cakewalk uses a master buss that outputs to the sound card, and that has no FX bin, so if you want to do like I do add a master limiter to the last buss in the chain you have to add it to a sub buss and then output that to the master buss. Not a deal breaker but just one more step you need to get 'er done. I like the MTS architecture where the master strip has the effect slot in it, hence being the place that you do the summing of the track. It just simplifys the process to my mind. I know that you can save a template with this setup in it, but the master strip is still just a volume control for all practical purposes.
I would love to see RB develop that way. Then leave the sub busses to be used as effects loops or group busses. No need to rename then, or any of that stuff.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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That slider that is labeled "all" is not really in the the signal chain that's why there are no FX bins. It functions like a VCA control in a conventional console. Take an old console that had sub groups. When you assign channels to a sub group those signals go through another amplifier. The subgroup is part of the signal chain. In a modern VCA console those subgroup faders control the voltage controlled amplifiers in the channels. In this case the subgroup is no longer in the signal chain.
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In any recent version of RB or PTPA there is a master output section that sends to the soundcard and it has four FX slots in it for mastering..
So the description you used still isn't making sense to me
Bottom right of mixer, the master output slots are the last thing the song goes through.
I believe that 'all' slider happens before that set of FX slots.. sort of a way to control how much you are pusing the master FX.
That 'all' slider stays at 100% here.. I use other ways of controlling the volumes
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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RealBand
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Well I guess cause this is all software it's not a true representation however if this was a hardware mixer you would see those A1-A16 sliders move proportionally to the movement of the "ALL" slider.
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I wasn't trying to explain to you, Silvertones, I think you know your way around these programs pretty well.
It was RobH statement that
"What i mean is that PTPA like cakewalk uses a master buss that outputs to the sound card, and that has no FX bin"
That keeps confusing me.
Either I don't understand his statement or he isn't looking at the same mixer I am inside PT or RB ..
wonder if its an older version of PT he is using (?)
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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RealBand
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As a Cakewalk user from Pro audio 8 up to Sonar 8 I know what the issue is. It's that "ALL" slider in RB & PTPA that's confusing the issue. I'm like you. Full up and forget it exists. In the Cakewalk products you can set up the chain like this:
Channels----->subgroups-------master stereo out. Each of these sections can have effects. It's very intuitive. We can do the same thing in RB & PT it's just a little trickier. In audio prefs just choose 1 audio out. This will show as A1. In Audio prefs also check" use unused outs as sub groups. Now in your Master section you'll see the first one is A1 and the rest are G2-G16. Now assign your tracks to any of the subs G2-G16 .The output of each channel assigned to a sub group will be controlled by that master sub group fader. The OVERALL output will be controlled by A1 and that does allow for 4 effects. You now have the identical setup as Cakewalk;Channels----->subgroups-------master stereo out. That extra section labeled "ALL" can be done awy with in my book. I just leave it up full and pretend it doesn't exist.
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I have version 11 and i see the Aux busses, but i do not see a master buss that allows summing where you can load a master limiter following an EQ
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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PG Music Staff
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Hello royj, Quote:
try to load GTR 3 or other VSti - get message saying the plugin cannot load!. Sigh out loud!
What exact error message do you get? All VST plugins should load. Have you used the Add/Remove VSTi item?
Andrew
PG Music Inc.
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I really do understand what both of you are saying, but that is just more work, and effort to do something that should be setup like that to start with. The All thing is confusing, and should not be there really. having to fake a master strip with a aux strip is not intuitive at all. I have Cakewalk MC3 and MC5, and i can set up a stereo out as a master, but it would be so cool if the main out was a master strip like it is in MTS which is very intuitive i might add. I would love to see PG go this route and simplify the process.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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Under the aux slots are the master out slots ..
I can't see it being simpler, actually... unless you accidently lost those.
The one on the bottom left is the main stereo out master slot in a default setup.
I can post pic if needed
I can't see trying to use an aux slot as a master..that would be really inconvenient!
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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If you could post a pic, i will review it tonight to see if i am missing something. No big hurry i will be at work all day. Thanks rharv!
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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Quote:
When I mention MTS, which is not very often here, out of respect for PGM, it certainly means that robust MultiTrackStudio.
Thanks Mac! 
i5 3.20GHz, 32gb RAM, 1tb SSD OS, 12tb HDD, 4gb gForce vid card, 32" monitor, Audient id44, Win10 x64, BiaB/RB 2023, Reaper 6,IK Multimedia Total Studio 3.5 MAX, Waves 10
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Okay rharv, and Silvertones. I see what you are refering to there. I did the change you suggested and the other 15 are now group outs to the master. Still while this will work fine is not near as easy to understand or setup as the master strip concept in MTS. It comes setup with just the master strip, you add the tracks you want, and the effects sends you want and the group sends you want, and all are setup to feed the master strip. I under stand the PG view of it now and it will do. but i never understood the reason for having all 48 tracks, all 8 aux busses, and all 16 audio outs already on the screen. To me that is just pure clutter, and not necessary. My guess is that it is easier than building in the coding to add those in as you need. keeping the code simple. I will track a full tune in it and run it thru it's paces. Thanks for the patience. Rob
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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 Any FX put here are final FX on the way out
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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RealBand
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Hi Andrew
To make sure, I have just used a fully functional Realband .seq file (alll MIDI tracks) and added a VSTi which I know works (Kitcore drum) - I use the "Add VSTi plugin" option. Kitcore works in the GM "playback" mode.
If I try to load Amlitube Fender or NI Guitar Rig 3, I get the error message popup "VST plugin was not loaded, either due to canceling or loading a NON VSTI -DLL" (I'm not shouting just copying the error message exactly!).
I hope this helps - other programs like Jamstix will load and the GM "playback" mode will be functional but not the "brain" (where it should do it's own thing at the tempo of the song).
Thank you
Roy
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Rob,
Glad it now makes sense however I do agree on"why is everything up there at once" It's not intuitive.
RHARV has his setup the way I actually use mine also. I don't use Groups per say .I use multiple outs to a hardware mixer.In that way A1-A16 are my groups with the Hardware mixer the final.
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Quote:
Hi Andrew
To make sure, I have just used a fully functional Realband .seq file (alll MIDI tracks) and added a VSTi which I know works (Kitcore drum) - I use the "Add VSTi plugin" option. Kitcore works in the GM "playback" mode.
If I try to load Amlitube Fender or NI Guitar Rig 3, I get the error message popup "VST plugin was not loaded, either due to canceling or loading a NON VSTI -DLL" (I'm not shouting just copying the error message exactly!).
I hope this helps - other programs like Jamstix will load and the GM "playback" mode will be functional but not the "brain" (where it should do it's own thing at the tempo of the song).
Thank you
Roy
OK, I am confused now....are we talking about VSTi INSTRUMETNS, or VST EFFECTS? Becasue I can not get my favortis VST Effects to load in RB....
i5 3.20GHz, 32gb RAM, 1tb SSD OS, 12tb HDD, 4gb gForce vid card, 32" monitor, Audient id44, Win10 x64, BiaB/RB 2023, Reaper 6,IK Multimedia Total Studio 3.5 MAX, Waves 10
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RealBand
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I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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RealBand
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7,831
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7,831 |
Hi Roy, Quote:
To make sure, I have just used a fully functional Realband .seq file (alll MIDI tracks) and added a VSTi which I know works (Kitcore drum) - I use the "Add VSTi plugin" option. Kitcore works in the GM "playback" mode.
If I try to load Amlitube Fender or NI Guitar Rig 3, I get the error message popup "VST plugin was not loaded, either due to canceling or loading a NON VSTI -DLL" (I'm not shouting just copying the error message exactly!).
I hope this helps - other programs like Jamstix will load and the GM "playback" mode will be functional but not the "brain" (where it should do it's own thing at the tempo of the song).
Thank you
I tried out demos of the Amplitube Fender and Guitar Rig - I was able to load them as VST plugins and they worked great. Note that these are VST plugins, not VSTi, so you want to use 'Add VST plugin' item in one of the VST (audio effect) slots - maybe that's what the problem is... If you are clicking the 'Edit DXi/VSTi' button on a MIDI track, the top slot is for DXi or VSTi synths.
Andrew
PG Music Inc.
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Hello Andrew
What you have just indicated has just "switched on a globe" in my head - I thought the guitar sims were VSTi's !! I think I have been banging on about something for 5 years when the problem is me!!- my apologies.
I have now got the guitar sims working and everything seems to be OK. Part of my problem was not inserting "Input Monitor Insert" into the tracks combo box and not unchecking the IM boxes on the Audio prefs setting once I had recorded. I hope I understand the worklflow correctly now.
Please chip in if I am still missing something.
Thank you for your patience
Roy
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