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Hey Friends, I am posting this for regular users of the products, who are also using the BIAB tracks as part of an approach for constructing professional song pitching demos. It is not necessary to write and say BIAB has a style picker, or anything that is stating the obvious. I think the people I am trying to reach will know what I mean here. So here is the thing: I am in the midst of trying to churn out a lot of demos, especially in the ephemeral area known as modern country, which is more like rock. There are a LOT of gorgeous BIAB styles that are perfect if you are doing an album, but for stripped down demos that have a "2021" feel I am constantly looking for that proverbial needle--a good solid beat, and a snappy guitar that is not too busy or squeaky. Anyone who has done a Nashville session will know what I mean. Made for G, C, D and Em patterns basically. Sounds simple, right? Harder to find. Can people who are interested list their favorite particular styles (or even Real Tracks) from the more recent years, that work well in your estimation, with pop, ballads, or up tempo country in 2021? Bear in mind I have all the Xtra styles, and know them all--but I would like to hear what YOU folks like the best. I might start a spreadsheet. Also, if you have links to songs you have created with the styles you mention, that would be awesome. Who knows, one day we might have our own list in style picker. Songwriter styles with decent groove that aren't too "clever"--just tried and true and workmanlike, as a starting place. Hope this makes sense.  I'll start by the way, I think _Novel.style is cool. (I know I have used this on a song, but I just can't remember which one at this moment.)
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I put in this progression 1,4,5,6m,1,4,5,6m,ii,iii,4,5.
I played that out on about 50 Country 4/4 EV8 130. There are more to try, but I did not find anything like a typical Nashville "Demo" session. I am not sure it exists.
Demo songs and Radio Ready are not the same things. I assume you are trying to sell the lyrics and to some extent the general musical idea.
I like BIAB to generate ideas quickly. I take the idea out of BIAB to my DAW. First, I replace the drum track with one I have control over using Superior Drummer or Addictive Drums. Second, modify the bass line or just play a new one live on guitar or piano so I have midi.
Many of the piano parts in BIAB are pretty good, many useable. The steel guitar parts have to be cut apart to be made to fit.
Brent Mason could do exactly what you want if you were in the studio with him. There is a small amount in BIAB from him that is useful. The rest is overplayed crap.
I think the only way you will get anything close to what you are looking for is to cut segments from different styles and cobble all that together. A pretty time-consuming and irritating process.
If you know what you want to hear and know how to communicate you can get that demo done in a Nashville studio in two hours.
The good news is that there are some pretty good "BIAB" country songs that can be generated. The issue is it will never sound exactly like you had in mind.
The less BIAB instrumentation you use the better it will sound. Buyers are going to do their arrangements. You are basically selling the lyrics and perhaps the melody.
Also, who would be trying to sell to? Cody Johnson, Luke Combs, Aaron Watson, Cody Jinks...those sort of guys?
I would actually like to hear you do a song with just you and acoustic guitar.
Billy
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I don't use styles anymore, I start from scratch. I load the blank template, enter about 16 or so bars of the song I'm wanting to record, and then I go find one instrument to build the track around. Acoustic guitar typically, but I've also done it with bass, drums, or piano.
Once I have, for example, an acoustic guitar that I like, I'll find a complementary bass part. Then drums, and so forth.
It's a bit tougher to get a track that sounds like current country (which I'm not crazy about anyway) because, with much love & respect to the PG Music folks, a lot of the country options are very, very dated. But if you mix a lot of different genres together, you can come up with some pretty interesting stuff.
My "BIAB wish list" would absolutely be for the '22 version, a greater focus on new realtracks as opposed to adding a bunch of additional features. Love the new features, use many of them, but I get a lot more inspiration and use out of new realtracks. Just my opinion as always.
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Billy, Thanks. There are two intersecting issues here. Let me see if I can explain. For one, I have been playing professionally since I was a child, as I think we discussed, and I can play the guitar all day long and record it. I have played in pro sessions, and been in countless bands. Got it. ( I have also made numerous user tracks I use from time time, which have that "chunk a chunk" rhythm I can't find elsewhere.) BUT--since I am working with A LOT of other people now on co-writing, the purpose of which is to PITCH a song, not do a finished song, I need some way to speed up the process, or I will be sitting in front of a mic or amp from 4 in the morning until midnight. Therefore, I am looking for some styles or grooves to take some of the load off. SECOND, playing along with Real Tracks is a source of inspiration and makes you think of grooves you would not have thought of, which you can jam to. BUT--so many of the "country" grooves I have found, for the purpose of COMMERCIAL country, are too niche, or "fancy." Great for an album, yes maybe, for sure, but not quite what I am looking for in demo material. SO--the closest thing I can find is to go back to Floyd Jane's top hits, so to speak, and create styles using what he is using because I am pretty sure he rolls his own. NEVERTHELESS, I would love to hear from other songwriters if THEY have any favorite, workmanlike styles they use for writing and pitching songs, especially in the commercial country market. There is a particular vibe to these demos, where the guitar is aggressive, but laid back and jaunty at the same time, and has a real "attitude." Guitarists will know one I am talking about. But it does not overshadow the lyrics, so it has punch, but is not too busy. Yes, I can do it myself, but that means I have to mic up, spend many hours, that kind of thing. OK for one song, but not for 30. SO--if anyone has any styles or tracks that YOU USE to create a bare bones demo groove, lay it on me. Hope this makes sense! I am continuing to hunt, and going through Floyd's stuff right now...
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Roger,
Thanks. That is what I am looking for.
With that in mind, do you have any favorite acoustic real tracks that YOU use as the basis for starting a song off from scratch??
And, do you have any favorite styles that are CLOSE for what you are trying to achieve currently as a musician?
I am trying to make a list and analyze this.
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Not really, no. I've gotten to where I start from scratch 100% of the time, so I don't have any styles that I gravitate towards.
As far as which guitar I go with, it's a bit of a fishing expedition. I open up the main real track selection screen (the one that shows you every available real track), scroll down to acoustic guitars, and then just go through and audition them one by one. Sometimes I can narrow it down, if for instance I know that I want fingerpicking, strumming, etc. I also audition them without the band accompaniment, I like hearing them solo'd so that I can more clearly determine if they're what I want.
I do find that I gravitate more towards Americana, folk, or rock acoustics for what I do. I frequently use the acoustic parts played by Quinn Bachand, I really like what he does.
The main thing for me is to totally disregard the "genre" I see listed next to the realtrack, and just listen to them regardless. I've even found celtic styles, bossa...lots of guitar parts that are perfect that I might not have considered if I had looked the genre listing.
Hope this is helpful.
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I don't necessarily keep track of the styles I use.
however....one thing is certain.... BB and the available styles will always be a year or more behind what is currently popular simple due to the nature of the beast.
What style might be popular now.... has to be heard and acknowledged by the folks at BB. Then they have to set the parameters, and record the real tracks for that style. It either makes it into next years new styles release, or more likely doesn't, and gets into the following years release by which time it is well over 1.5 to 2 years past it's prime.
That said.... I think you can learn the style that is currently popular by dissecting it and figure out how it works....and use the existing BB tracks and styles to reassemble your own style, perhaps with some out of the box thinking and playing...as needed.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Hey David, You should PM Floyd Jane and have a conversation with him. He is a super nice guy and has answered many questions for me concerning what you can and can not get out of BIAB. I would be glad to help you search through BIAB Real Tracks but I don't have a clear idea of what you are looking for. There are modern country songs listed in the style picker by current artist but they don't sound anything like the artist. Go here and listen to Sample two. Is this the type of guitar sound you are looking for? For me this is pretty much middle of the road modern country. I have never worked with this studio, just found them pokeing around. https://www.countrysongdemos.com/songdemosamplesBilly
Last edited by Planobilly; 09/06/21 07:52 AM.
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Hi Everyone, Thanks for the input. As stated, I can sit down and play anything if it has a few strings. But that would mean I would have to actually work, and mic up. What I am looking for is: JUST AN IDEA ON YOUR OWN FAVORITE STYLES AND TRACKS FOR SONG DEMOS. That is it. Just your favorite songwriting RTs or styles. Floyd just hit me up with a bunch of stuff and I am working on it now.
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Brent Mason could do exactly what you want if you were in the studio with him. There is a small amount in BIAB from him that is useful. The rest is overplayed crap.
YEP
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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Great James, Thanks so much! Listening to your songs right now!
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Ok,
I am getting somewhere. Floyd turned me on to "Mod Country 16" drums and any of the styles with those drums seem to work well as bed for modern country, though you may have to add stuff. Double time acoustics and so forth.
The rock and bluegrass styles that use these drums are the beginnings of modern country at least, but they just don't necessary jump out at you.
Try _Decatur, _Glimmer and _Scream for example...
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It's a good song, for sure!
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James Taylor is right up there.
Mike Reid / Allen Shamblin ( I Can’t Make You Love Me made popular by Bonnie Raitt)
Simon and Garfunkel
Whomever writes for Kasey Musgrave
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David, Luke Combs has received numerous songwriting awards in addition to his other awards. You may find +++ THIS +++ newspaper article about the Nashville Songwriter Awards inspiring.
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Thanks Jim, Yeah Luke is cool man!
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Rockstar, Agree on all!
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