I guess I was pretty vague about the whole "pop" thing looking back. I probably should have said what Bud mentioned, music on the pop charts. A quick reference... Pop Chart Example
There has been a large trend to more of an 80's type of feel for the last year and half or so, which I have actually enjoyed.
I am one of those that is also in the "it's not about the genre" camp. If I like it, it's good to me.
As far as there being as many genres in the top of the pop charts as there songs in the top of the pop charts, I actually think there are not all that many. There are only a few represented, in my opinion.
I'm sorry Eddie, I have tried again and again, I just can't picture you at the Debbie Gibson concert. She definitely was and is talented. I think my brain just keeps going to the visual of you being one of the screaming fans when "Only in My Dreams" starts. There is a disconnect for me.
I hope I helped clarify what I meant by "Pop." I get a lot of music that hasn't traditionally been pop is blurring the lines.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
I'm sorry Eddie, I have tried again and again, I just can't picture you at the Debbie Gibson concert.
It was actually funny and kind of a totality of circumstances thing. It was August of 1988 and she was not quite yet 18 years old. And this 37 year old man was a fan because she wrote her own music AND I knew she would have a great band behind her. (She HAD to!) My band of the time abused me regularly about that! And on my birthday in June of that year they bought me 2 tickets to her concert and a t-shirt with her picture on it. She played at our locally famous outdoor venue called Blossom Music Center. I took my "concert" girlfriend of the time (more on that later) and got to our seats in time for a really AWFUL opening act. She came on and the music behind her was as good as I expected. She was REALLY juvenile but she wasn't really there to entertain dirty old men. Her audience was 14 and I had a better time checking out the moms that drove their daughters out there than anything. She was an adorable 17 year old kid, dressed in 1987 hipster clothes, including that little skipper hat she wore, and she did 35 minutes, her whole album, and was done. No encore.
The girlfriend thing was unique. I had a concert girlfriend, a movies girlfriend, a sports girlfriend, and a dinner girlfriend. They each liked doing ONLY that (i.e. movie girl hated sports, sports girl hated dressing up for dinner, etc) and they all knew about each other. It worked because none of us was actually looking for anything more than casual fun times.
I DID feel out of place at that concert, which was strange because I had never felt that way before. And it has happened only once since. I wanted to see Daughtry when he came to Cleveland. He played at an auditorium on the Cleveland State campus. I went by myself because he IS an acquired taste. I never saw so many men in leather pants in one place before or since, and I may have been the only straight male in that building. I left before his encore to beat the traffic, but man, he is an outstanding singer. Great band too. I kept looking for, but did not find, that hot ex-stripper he was married to at the time (And might still be. I don't really follow the guy.)
For the record, MY fat azz was NOT in leather pants. The ASPCA has laws against killing enough cows at one time to wrap this body in leather.
If you define "pop" as what is currently popular on the radio, then I've rarely been into pop.
I haven't turned the radio on in my car or elsewhere for at least 10 years or more. I actually never listen to anything in the car. I find it annoying.
I've never really liked much of what the general public wants to hear. You'd have to go back to the 60's or 70's for me to care much about pop.
I think that is the generally accepted definition of "pop" (aka popular ... because it's on the radio)
Even back in the day the deep cuts and B sides of the radio bands weren't considered pop among my circle of friends.
For me there are only two kinds of music (1) music I like and (2) music made for someone other than myself.
This is exactly how I define music. I'll happily jump from listening to Billie Eilish (pop) to Between The Buried And Me (technical death metal) to Snarky Puppy (jazz/funk) to Bent Knee (art rock) to Beethoven (you know who he is). All of this music can be considered pop if you ask the right group.
Genres these days are a lot more flexible than they used to be. Take this song for example - they're a modern metal band, but I guarantee most of you will be surprised at how not-heavy it is for the most part:
Last edited by Simon - PG Music; 09/21/2102:32 PM.
Here is a sideline question, is pop music that is a year old still pop? How about 5? 10? 40?
Does pop music degenerate in classification in time?
When I was 40 years old, I decided to market my duo to the retirement audience. It's a big, stable market here in South Florida and while the bars and lounges have dropped live music, until COVID my gigs were very stable. It was a good decision for someone who wants to make a living doing music and nothing but music in my area of the country.
When I started this, pop to the adult crowd was Glenn Miller and Frank Sinatra. Pop music that was 35 years or so old. As time passed, Elvis Presley and Roy Orbison entered the mix. Then the Beatles, later The Cars.
Now Miller and Sinatra don't get any reaction, a little of Elvis still does, but not too much, and it seems that the Beatles will be next to fade into oblivion. We'll keep learning new 30 or so year old songs, and play whatever our audience likes to hear.
It seems we are playing pop music between 30-55 years after they hit their peak on Billboard. Is it still pop?
My audience considers it popular, and it's popular with them?
For the years I was in a top40 band, anything a year or two old was no longer on the playlist. It wasn't popular anymore.
10 years or more, it returns on the 'oldies' stations.
Like many on this forum, I find pop hard to define.
If you mean current top40 - I like some and don't care for some. It depends on whether it tickles whatever it is inside me that moves me.
Great summary, Notes, and well worth consideration.
Pop is whatever any specific party considers 'popular'. It doesn't mean 'the latest', 'the newest', the 'most different', the 'most unique'. Ultimately, it means how 'popular' it is with the listener. Every audience will have a specific idea of what they find popular. I can dig that.
Clearly you have developed skills to read an audience, and know what music they find to be 'popular'. In summary, 'one size doesn't fit all' There's no right way or wrong way.
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
For me there are only two kinds of music (1) music I like and (2) music made for someone other than myself.
This is exactly how I define music. I'll happily jump from listening to Billie Eilish (pop) to Between The Buried And Me (technical death metal) to Snarky Puppy (jazz/funk) to Bent Knee (art rock) to Beethoven (you know who he is). All of this music can be considered pop if you ask the right group.
Genres these days are a lot more flexible than they used to be. Take this song for example - they're a modern metal band, but I guarantee most of you will be surprised at how not-heavy it is for the most part:
SIMON! That was spectacular. I'd call it stripped down metal, maybe. It has the 'elements' even when it was quiet..the jagged rhythm, dissonance, and all that.
It's just that they were out of costume (except the drummer, but only when he was shirtless). They look like the next six or so hipsters through the doors at Starbucks. How can they be metal without the costumes?
But that singer! Lord-a-mercy. Those are probably the best vocals I've heard in a long, long, long ever.
----
On topic: Pop is like [*****]. I have a hard time defining it, but I know it when I (see) hear it. I've always liked the majority of what made it to radio, as long as it doesn't wear out its welcome.
I have this theory, untested since I don't play with the frequency of even a part time player (and certainly not as much as Notes plays), but I believe an audience will enjoy and appreciate anything performed at the highest level. Thus I have never succumbed to the popular notion that you have to play radio hits. That notion is what results in a Stairway to Freebird with a side of a Brown Eyed Girl named Mustang Sally. I will not play "that list" in a feeble and transparent effort to endear myself to an audience. I will play what I want to play, and I am going to have a band that plays it SO WELL that they will have no choice but to adore us for what they are hearing. And it will include about 20% of my own writings.
Drivers really loved the Corvette and the Firebird. Should every car maker have tiptoed down the party line and make one of what every other car maker is already doing, or is there something to be said for being unique?
To be honest, I don't even know what's on the radio in 2021. I have not listened to a radio for at least 15 years. Other than the artists that make the news for reasons outside of music, I can't even really name many of them. Simon mentioned that Billy Eyelash person/thing whatever that is. Lady GooGoo.... an of that I avoid. Now take me down the Average White Band and Earth Wind & Fire path, I'm there. Note though that this is also my basic personality. I don't concern myself with other people's opinions too much. I am right, and I feel sorry for people who are not smart enough to know I am right. I have been taken to task SO often for my attitude toward audiences, that attitude being that when you are in a place I am playing, you are on MY turf, and in this arena if you are not a player, I am better than you. When I am in your accounting office, or your welding shop, or your decorating design firm, you are better than me. But this stage, this is MY domain and you don't tell me what to play. Your role here is to sit and listen and be amazed at how good we are. (And we WILL be great or I will not be involved in it! Therein lies the reason why I can't keep a band. We rehearse until I say it's right. There is no "good enough" in music. There is "great" and "suck". Nothing between. But that "attitude" topic is for a different thread. And I have plenty of it!)
On topic, sit and drink your gin and tonic and marvel at how good my band is. That's your role here. Harsh? Yep. But I myself am harsh, and extremely hard on myself. I missed an exit point on a song 2 gigs ago because with no monitor I didn't hear the out cue. I wanted to go offstage and drink a cup of poison. But as usual, that's just me.
I just got an email from a friend who was scheduled to play a show for a high school at a roller rink in October just before Halloween. They required that he send a set list of about 50-55 songs songs they might play. On the list was Saliva's "Click Click Boom". They were told they couldn't play it because click and boom MAY be interpreted as being related to guns. Also on the list was Monster Mash, which was deemed unfit because the subject matter was "too morbid". For Halloween. WHAT??? Also George Michael's "I Want Your Sex". (I MAY get that one.)
He replied to the email informing the school that he would not be censored and was canceling. According to him (and know that he is the same kind of wise azz I am) he added
"PS. We may be available for the book burning or the witch hunt. Send us the tentative dates."
MONSTER MASH??? Banned from a HALLOWEEN SHOW??? What year is this? How long have I been asleep?
The school was a nearby Christian Academy, which may explain the tight sphincter. But Monster Mash???
We use to play a song called "Clean Straight Shooter" in a couple of biker bars that liked us and paid us well.
They were very fond of the rude off-color songs. Homophobia was rampant as was racism.
"Straight shooter" is a type of crack pipe and it also can be used to say I am not gay. The guys in the biker bar loved it and demanded we play it at least two times a night.
I played the song once in a black bar where I am very well known and some thought it was funny. Mrs Johnson, the owner, came to me and said " Billy don't be playing that [*****] in here. We got crack pipes laying on the ground right outside the door. You know Jonny OD last week and we got enough of that and don't need you reminding us".
So, the bottom line is, if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. Contrary to what you may think, the world does not revolve around "your" perception of what is acceptable. It's not your choice what you can sing in certain venues.
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
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We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
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XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
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Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
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