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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 299
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 299 |
If get what Pipeline is suggesting...
He's not saying to use Reaper or a DAW... but, to implement features of a DAW, (such as they did with Volume Automation), into BIAB. If they could add "Audio Editing features" the same way, for instance.
Record the edits made, in the SGU/MGU file and "play the edits back" over the existing RealTrack, without physically changing the source RealTracks, or generating separate audio (.wav) files.
Don't know what's required to do that. But it would be nice.
Last edited by Thunderthud; 02/25/22 11:00 AM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,286
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,286 |
If they turn BiaB into a DAW then I will be done with it. IMHO a lot of the problems/bugs that comes up every year now is due to adding customer wanted features to very old code. Three examples are the VST, utility tracks and micro chords, all great ideas but with half baked executions.
Real DAWs can do any time signature. Real DAWs do not have destructive edits. In a real DAW one can monitor while recording. Etc etc.
Lets keep BiaB as the premier "complete professional-quality arrangement" tool and not try to make it a DAW or notation program or anything else.
That is just my opinion and YMMV.
Principal: Your child always causes trouble in school.
Me: My child causes trouble at home, do I ever call you?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 7,954
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 7,954 |
Users are stuck in Biab and want to do everything in it because it's quicker after change of chords/tracks to regen. They made RealBand for DAW users to have RealTracks but it is slow and crashed as it uses bbw2 to generate into RAM then render to wav that RealBand then uses, this is too slow compared to Biab. So Plugin comes along, great you can generate tracks in any DAW, but again too slow as users wanted the speed of Biab generation. Look at the track data text file above this takes a second to generate and takes Reaper a second to load and play. So I posted ways to make the Plugin generate faster than Biab and play direct, posted ways to make RealBand generate faster than Biab and play direct. Posted ways to make a Live Arranger to instantly play any chord entered and play RealTracks not just RealDrums like other arranger keyboards. All that I posted above how Reaper works could of been done with RealBand when it was released as Reaper with non destructive editing was released back in 2006. So why has the software been held back so far for so long ? This Pic below demonstrates why the waiting times are unnecessary. I open a 252 bar frozen SGU I copy the wav instruction direct to Reaper I can go anywhere on the timeline and play instantly Now Biab(bbw4) already has the wav instructions generated but it has to write it into RAM then render to wav before you get it but Reaper had it instantly, so too will the BBPlugin when repaired and it will do more than 255 bars, decimal tempo maps, any time signatures Try 255 bars with all the Utility tracks and see how long you wait. Would this method be too quick and come as a shock and scare users off ? Would you need a delay option to slow it down until you get used to the speed ? 4K View 
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,142
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,142 |
I think Mario has a point. Most of the fixes and patches seem to be for the new features which add functionality to BIAB but are a bit like a bolt on to what Mario calls the ageing code. And like Mario, i like to exit BIAB as soon as possible.
Agree with Pipeline, BIAB's strength is its content. Once a song is roughed out I go straight to RB and don't really notice any slow response that really makes a difference.
Love BIAB and RB. I've played in small rock and roll and folk bands for over 50 years and that's the sound i try to recreate. simple and easy and BIAB and RB deliver perfectly. Maybe if I was trying to recreate Pet Sounds or Sgt Pepper i'd demand more functionality. As BIAB gets more complicated, the less of its new features I use. Haven't yet found a limitation of RB for what i want to do that inspires me to look at another DAW or look under the hood at BIAB.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,623
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,623 |
I think Mario has a point. Me too, though I do also have more than a little sympathy/empathy with PGM. Thair business model appears to be predicated upon updates every year with new features that people will want to buy. That in and of itself is OK, but it becomes rather a case of tail wagging dog. I think they get too little opportunity to sit down and properly think though the whole architecture and work out if there are better, tidier, more efficient ways to do things. And that's far from surprising with a fairly complex system like BiaB. I suspect they sometimes barely get time to draw breath from bug-fixing the current release before the next release is bearing down on them, even if they have a development team and a separate maintenance team. I think the "all tracks are equal" initiative rather demonstrates that. It is, IMHO, a good step in the right direction, but it's been done by adding Utility tracks that are different from legacy tracks, then making them "equal" except when, in so many respects, they're clearly not. I suspect that the need to add tracks because the "legacy tracks are too few" took precedence over "how can we make tracks truly consistent and equal?". The consequence is that they move forward in uncertain stages. But they have a living to earn and they need to sell the next updates in time for Christmas. It isn't easy.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 109
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 109 |
We’ve received complaints from some forum users about threads like this being hijacked to different topics. Please note the terms of service item 15. https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=boardrules&v=1—- 15. Don't hijack someone else's thread topic with a different topic. For example, if the thread is about "Topic A", don't add a reply in the same thread about a different "Topic B". Instead, start your own thread for "Topic B".
Webmaster
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 7,954
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 7,954 |
We’ve received complaints from some forum users about threads like this being hijacked to different topics. Please note the terms of service item 15. https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=boardrules&v=1—- 15. Don't hijack someone else's thread topic with a different topic. For example, if the thread is about "Topic A", don't add a reply in the same thread about a different "Topic B". Instead, start your own thread for "Topic B". First off, "All Tracks are Equal." All 24 tracks have the same capabilities, including styles and generation. We have had lots of complaint about this statement from lots of forum users. Utility tracks don't show up in the Bar Settings window, so how can do bar settings for Utility tracks at particular bars? I'm looking to mix the horns down for the first verse and bring them back in for the chorus and 2nd verse. You have to activate the Volume Automation feature, within the Audio Edit Window.  What more is there ?
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows Special Offers End Tomorrow (January 15th, 2026) at 11:59 PM PST!
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Happy New Year!
Thank you for being part of the Band-in-a-Box® community.
Wishing you and yours a very happy 2026—Happy New Year from all of us at PG Music!
Season's Greetings!
Wishing everyone a happy, healthy holiday season—thanks for being part of our community!
The office will be closed for Christmas Day, but we will be back on Boxing Day (Dec 26th) at 6:00am PST.
Team PG
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: The Newly Designed Piano Roll Window
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