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Joined: Jul 2011
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I'd like to extract midi data from a pdf sheet music. What kind of OCR soft could do that job?
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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DonCarlos
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DonCarlos
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Karel Jacko alias Don Carlos - Czech Republic Dealer PG Music, Inc - +420 604 111 102, +420 602 561 567 mobil - Band Leader Groups Jazz za Bukem and Hot Jazz Sutrs; - BIAB 2020 Win10; BIAB 2019 MAC; - Roland GK-3 Divided Pickup (Guitar and Bass); Roland GR-20 Guitar Synth; - MOTU UltraLite mk3 (Firewire); Fishman Tripleplay - MacBookPro 13 with touchbar 2018, Wiki BIAB czech support page wiki.zabukem.eu
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Joined: Jul 2000
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I have extracted MIDI from sheet music, and wasn't happy with the results.
It scanned with minimal errors, but the music was stiff, quantized with every note at exactly the same velocity. It was like step-entering a song.
If that is all you want, scanning is for you. If you want the computer to play the music you scanned, you may be in for a disappointment.
In most forms of music, we don't play the notes exactly where they appear in the notation. We rush some, drag some, in order to get a groove. In the melody, we may rush the beginning of a phrase and drag the end for expressive purposes, or vice-versa.
We don't play every note at the same volume, either. Imagine talking to someone, making sure each syllable of each word is exactly as loud (or soft) as all the others. It'll sound like a 1970s speech robot.
For me, I find it better to play the notes into a sequencer. That way I get the groove and volume (velocity) right. If I hit a clunker of a bad note, I just keep on going. Fixing a wrong note in MIDI is easier than injecting life over a quantized, scanned or step-entered piece of music.
I'm not trying to discourage you, just making you aware of a possible pitfall.
Insights and incites by Notes ♫
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Joined: Nov 2003
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Journeyman
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I have extracted MIDI from sheet music, and wasn't happy with the results.
It scanned with minimal errors, but the music was stiff, quantized with every note at exactly the same velocity. It was like step-entering a song.
If that is all you want, scanning is for you. If you want the computer to play the music you scanned, you may be in for a disappointment.
In most forms of music, we don't play the notes exactly where they appear in the notation. We rush some, drag some, in order to get a groove. In the melody, we may rush the beginning of a phrase and drag the end for expressive purposes, or vice-versa.
We don't play every note at the same volume, either. Imagine talking to someone, making sure each syllable of each word is exactly as loud (or soft) as all the others. It'll sound like a 1970s speech robot.
For me, I find it better to play the notes into a sequencer. That way I get the groove and volume (velocity) right. If I hit a clunker of a bad note, I just keep on going. Fixing a wrong note in MIDI is easier than injecting life over a quantized, scanned or step-entered piece of music.
I'm not trying to discourage you, just making you aware of a possible pitfall.
Insights and incites by Notes ♫
Great advice! However, in a DAW like Cakewalk or Cubase that has extensive MIDI editing capabilities, one can achieve passable results. It is still a lot of work. Far from a magic "push this button" solution, but doable.
Byron Dickens BIAB. CbB. Mixbus 32C 8 HP Envy. Intel core i7. 16GB RAM W10. Focusrite Scarlett 18i 20. Various instruments played with varying degrees of proficiency. https://soundcloud.com/athanorsoundlabs
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Joined: Jul 2000
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If you already have a PDF, the best utility I have used is PDFtoMusic Pro. It's expensive, but it's the most accurate IF the music came from one of the major notation programs or from a publisher.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Joined: Jul 2011
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OP
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@audiotrack thanks a lot. I already tried some but I'll surely find a useful tool with your input
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Thanks. Are you personally satisfied with it?
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Joined: Jul 2011
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OP
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I have extracted MIDI from sheet music, and wasn't happy with the results.
It scanned with minimal errors, but the music was stiff, quantized with every note at exactly the same velocity. It was like step-entering a song.
If that is all you want, scanning is for you. If you want the computer to play the music you scanned, you may be in for a disappointment.
In most forms of music, we don't play the notes exactly where they appear in the notation. We rush some, drag some, in order to get a groove. In the melody, we may rush the beginning of a phrase and drag the end for expressive purposes, or vice-versa.
We don't play every note at the same volume, either. Imagine talking to someone, making sure each syllable of each word is exactly as loud (or soft) as all the others. It'll sound like a 1970s speech robot.
For me, I find it better to play the notes into a sequencer. That way I get the groove and volume (velocity) right. If I hit a clunker of a bad note, I just keep on going. Fixing a wrong note in MIDI is easier than injecting life over a quantized, scanned or step-entered piece of music.
I'm not trying to discourage you, just making you aware of a possible pitfall.
Insights and incites by Notes ♫
Thanks for infos. But the goal is to start with something, then edit it until it becomes more satisfying.
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 81
Enthusiast
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OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 81 |
I have extracted MIDI from sheet music, and wasn't happy with the results.
It scanned with minimal errors, but the music was stiff, quantized with every note at exactly the same velocity. It was like step-entering a song.
If that is all you want, scanning is for you. If you want the computer to play the music you scanned, you may be in for a disappointment.
In most forms of music, we don't play the notes exactly where they appear in the notation. We rush some, drag some, in order to get a groove. In the melody, we may rush the beginning of a phrase and drag the end for expressive purposes, or vice-versa.
We don't play every note at the same volume, either. Imagine talking to someone, making sure each syllable of each word is exactly as loud (or soft) as all the others. It'll sound like a 1970s speech robot.
For me, I find it better to play the notes into a sequencer. That way I get the groove and volume (velocity) right. If I hit a clunker of a bad note, I just keep on going. Fixing a wrong note in MIDI is easier than injecting life over a quantized, scanned or step-entered piece of music.
I'm not trying to discourage you, just making you aware of a possible pitfall.
Insights and incites by Notes ♫
Great advice! However, in a DAW like Cakewalk or Cubase that has extensive MIDI editing capabilities, one can achieve passable results. It is still a lot of work. Far from a magic "push this button" solution, but doable. You're right. But before editing a midi track, you have to get one first. So far, the softs I've worked with gave output polluted with errors. For that reason, I'm looking for a high-end tool (my system is win 7 64b)
Last edited by Moshe13us; 04/03/22 10:27 AM.
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Joined: Jul 2011
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OP
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If you already have a PDF, the best utility I have used is PDFtoMusic Pro. It's expensive, but it's the most accurate IF the music came from one of the major notation programs or from a publisher. Isn't it the soft from Myriad?
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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If you already have a PDF, the best utility I have used is PDFtoMusic Pro. It's expensive, but it's the most accurate IF the music came from one of the major notation programs or from a publisher. Isn't it the soft from Myriad? Yes. And I see the price is much less than it was a few years ago when I bought it.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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<...snip...>
For me, I find it better to play the notes into a sequencer. That way I get the groove and volume (velocity) right. If I hit a clunker of a bad note, I just keep on going. Fixing a wrong note in MIDI is easier than injecting life over a quantized, scanned or step-entered piece of music.
<...>
<...> However, in a DAW like Cakewalk or Cubase that has extensive MIDI editing capabilities, one can achieve passable results. It is still a lot of work. Far from a magic "push this button" solution, but doable. That's why I included the above paragraph. For me, it takes more time to turn a step-entered or scanned piece of music into something that lives and breathes like music, than to record something in real time that has wrong notes that need to be fixed. But that's just me. I have basic keyboard skills and if it's too tricky, I have a wind MIDI controller which works like a saxophone, my main instrument. There is more than one right way to make music. Insights and incites by Notes ♫
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Another way to get a song into a DAW or BiaB is to get a MIDI file of said song. You may have to purchase that MIDI file to get a correct transcription but the prices are very reasonable, plus it will save a lot of time. YMMV
When you are at the checkout line and they ask if you found everything say "Why, are you hiding stuff?"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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As has been mentioned. Translating from PDF to MIDI is most likely to give you a very 'mechanical' outcome, totally void of the nuances that define and describe the creativity in a musical passage. There may be a lot of additional editing to get the piece to sound like a reasonably natural performance, it that's your goal.
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Expert
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Expert
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Translating from PDF to MIDI is most likely to give you a very 'mechanical' outcome, totally void of the nuances that define and describe the creativity in a musical passage. Which is exactly what you want. No more, no less information than is in the printed score. You do NOT want your scanner injecting "nuances" into a MIDI transcription, that's what humans are for. I point this out because some of the language here is suggestive of a limitation or defect, which this is not.
Last edited by Mark Hayes; 04/04/22 04:23 AM.
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Agreed. Definitely not a defect. It's just a fact, and I hope the O/P understands that any output will not initially include the expression that a live performer would normally interpret when playing a written piece.
However, it would be a starting point for them to work further with the MIDI to refine it if they so wished.
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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Thanx for your valuable input. I mainly use BiaB to produce backing tracks that will allow me to play-along on my guitar.
I've tried to work with an (expensive) australian transcription service but the bill was too high.
Currently, we can get tons of jazz sheet music that can be useful for backing (piano, strings...) or mixing with BiaB tracks, but the best I can get is midi with good samples libraries. Hence my question relative to get midi data from pdf sheet scores.
Mo.
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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Could you give an example of a song you are trying to do?
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Help! Tech S.O.S (Off topic)
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For example, as a MPB lover, I downloaded Tom Jobim's sheet music with piano scores. When I manage to isolate the piano track, played with a piano sample, the result can be quite studio-like. Nowadays, you can find high-end samples libraries which are too good to be true.
If realism is the name of the game, you can have the best of two worlds with midi and audio.
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