I have a fairly low-powered notepad PC that I've been using for quite a while with 2021 and 2022, but I've recently been having problems that sound like maybe the CPU runs out of capacity.
I've had the sound breaking up badly with a couple of Windows services running, notably "Windows Compatibility Telemetry" and possibly an anti-malware program MsMpEng.exe.
Over the time since I installed 920, though, the problem seems to be getting gradually worse to the point that now the sound breaks up for a moment of roughly every other bar. I also hear what seems to be a double rim-strike for the count-in, which makes me wonder if somehow BiaB is trying to play the same thing doubled?
When generating, CPU is around 40% or so, during count-in it rises to around 60% and it then hovers around 65%.
Does any of this mean anything to anyone? Any suggestions?
(1.5G dual Celeron)
Thanks.
Gordon.
Last edited by Gordon Scott; 04/04/2210:58 AM.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
When generating, CPU is around 40% or so, during count-in it rises to around 60% and it then hovers around 65%.
Does any of this mean anything to anyone? Any suggestions?
(1.5G dual Celeron)
Does it gradually drop back as the song continues playing? BiaB generates only as much as is required to start playing the song, and continues to generate more of the song in the background. There is a setting that can be turned off so that the song generates completely before it begins playing. Perhaps try that option and see if your results improve on that machine.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
Gordon. Please dont be upset at me, and you can check on other forums…but This is the gods honest truth…common probs examples with low power one drive laptops are , as follows. 1, If everything is on the one internal drive , including all the rt’s etc... if win needs to do something it can interrupt the daw process. 2. If also the laptop is using older drive tech rather than ssd this can be a factor. 3. If also the low power laptop is on the net concurrently with the user doing daw work this can be a factor. Once again interruptions can occur.
Frankly for a project studio i always advise a i5 cpu min eg 4570 plus a couple of ssd’s installed …one for win to do its thing and one for the project studio programs and traks etc etc there are loads of great cheap Refurbs around that are v nice. I have one...under 200 quid.
Some q’s… 1. If an old internal drive have you used win disk clean up // drive defrag ? Ive got an ancient laptop here i use for non daw work and just a disk cleanup today significantly improved things. Speed wise. Like a car things can get gunked up. Today i claimed back a ton of disk space. 2. If on the net have you ever run the utility ‘a latency monitor ‘? this will give much useful feedback. // stats on your pc. 3. In realband what does rb report as max traks from this pc ?.
Would like more info bout your pc before commenting further.
Best. om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 04/04/2201:10 PM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
Does it gradually drop back as the song continues playing? BiaB generates only as much as is required to start playing the song, and continues to generate more of the song in the background. There is a setting that can be turned off so that the song generates completely before it begins playing. Perhaps try that option and see if your results improve on that machine.
That's interesting. I hadn't realised that and I'll give that a go later. I can't just now.
Last edited by Gordon Scott; 04/04/2210:38 PM.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
1, If everything is on the one internal drive , including all the rt’s etc... if win needs to do something it can interrupt the daw process. 2. If also the laptop is using older drive tech rather than ssd this can be a factor. 3. If also the low power laptop is on the net concurrently with the user doing daw work this can be a factor. Once again interruptions can occur.
Frankly for a project studio i always advise a i5 cpu min eg 4570 plus a couple of ssd’s installed …one for win to do its thing and one for the project studio programs and traks etc etc there are loads of great cheap Refurbs around that are v nice. I have one...under 200 quid.
Some q’s… 1. If an old internal drive have you used win disk clean up // drive defrag ? Ive got an ancient laptop here i use for non daw work and just a disk cleanup today significantly improved things. Speed wise. Like a car things can get gunked up. Today i claimed back a ton of disk space. 2. If on the net have you ever run the utility ‘a latency monitor ‘? this will give much useful feedback. // stats on your pc. 3. In realband what does rb report as max traks from this pc ?.
Would like more info bout your pc before commenting further.
Best. om
The notepad has one SSD drive with a standard UltraPAK installation, i.e.,m this is not me WMA-expanded-to-WAV machine. It's not studio, it's just for practice. I have to go out, I'll try suggestions and respond more later.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
I'll be interested to get your feedback with that option selected. If there is an improvement, it suggests the performance issue is with your system.
Await your results.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
I ran the same song as yesterday which uses the "_UNLOVED" style at 60BPM and I not that the first couple of rim-shots sound normal, then the subsequent ones sound doubled, like there's a quick echo (guess .. maybe 20ms delay?). I could measure that if it might be helpful, but I can't really see that it would be. At 60bpm that's exactly one perturbance per second, which might indicate an external factor. So ... I changed that to 70bpm, but the perturbance remains per bar (interestingly it's a little after the beat, maybe 60ms?)
Setting the checkbox in Song Settings made no obvious difference to the perturbance. With the checkbox set, I get around 45% CPU during generation and around 22-27% during play.
At this point I decided to try a different style, just to eliminate the style itself from the equation, but I may have found the reverse... I switched to "_ROARING" at the same tempo (70) and it played just fine. Back to "_UNLOVED" it breaks, back to "_ROARING" it's fine. Hmmm. I unchecked the Song Settings box, tried again with "_ROARING", which is still fine.
OK ... tried another ... "_ORGANICS". This also plays fine.
Back to "_UNLOVED" and it's still perturbed.
This now sounds very like a problem with the style and not with my PC. I've probably allowed myself to be persuaded otherwise by the problems I have had with those Windows services.
Next I tried "_HRTACHE" and it's fine; back to "_UNLOVED" and it's broken.
Can someone confirm if "_UNLOVED" misbehaves also for them, or if the misbehaviour is peculiar to me? Possibly my style is corrupt.
Thanks. Gordon.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
_UNLOVED is part of Extra Styles PAK 12, so I tried reinstalling it (or according to the standalone download manager, installing it?), but it behaves the same.
That funny effect with the count-in is consistent with this style. The first click sounds fine, subsequent count-in clicks have a doubled sound.
Hmm ... curiouser still. I've tried it on my Linux installation, where it gives double-clicks (wider apart) for all the count-in, but the style plays OK.
I'll try it on Win10 when I get onto it.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
Build 920 Windows 10 has the same double-click on count-in as on Linux+Wine, but on both the double-click is at a wider time interval than on Windows 8; Build 920 on Windows 10 actually plays the style as it should and as it did on Linux+Wine, but it won't play properly on Win 8.
Windows 10 and Linux+Wine are the same PC, (i5-7400 @ 3GHz), though this machine does have conventional drives, not a SSD.
I really don't know what to make of this.
Last edited by Gordon Scott; 04/05/2209:40 AM.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
Gordon. unfortunately i dont have that style here. but if rb is reporting those 115 trak stats your pc should be good. unless the pc gets overloaded with cpu intensive plug ins. as you said possibly its a prob with the style. given also you have a ssd.
still if not done for awhile, if were me I probably would do a general pc clean up and eg look in win temp folder to see if any funky stuff , and also check with win task manager and monitor whats useing cpu cycles.
q'...how long does the pc take to boot up from cold ? here on my cheapie refurb i5 which i have to say 2022 runs like a champ on...boot from cold is only a few secs into desktop and 2022 is snappy (biab/rb/reaps).
what i like for a few hundred quid is the refurb hp z desktop with xeons in and slammed with ssd's, or pg simons intel 11400 suggestion for a desktop with ssd's or ryzen 5/7.
and lets not forget the little pi that grabs my heartstrings. more developers are porting to it. this week i was reading bout airwindows plug ins (which lots of recording folk like ) and the pi.
now i think i'll get a beery steak n mushroom pi for supper...lol.
best om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 04/05/2209:51 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
For the present I've just started ignoring the style and using _ROARING instead.
I'd turned the volume up quiite a bit by accident and discovered an echo on my piano. Nothing obvious on the piano, so I looked at THRU or BiaB to find I had a PianoTeq plug-in. OK, maybe PianoTeq is implicated. Muted; no echo; load _UNLOVED .... erm ... where's _UNLOVED gone? I seem to have just lost a few hundred styles.
Recycle bin and malware checks tomorrow, I think.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
Hmm ... I checked the Styles directory and the files were still there. I started BiaB(64) and search in StylePicker for _UNLOVED ... not there. I did a slow rebuild (I have some Norton-music stuff, too) and now they're there again.
I tried it again, but it still double-clicks the count-in and still has the perturbance in each bar. I didn't expect otherwise, but I had to try.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
What does Task Manager, and more importantly Resource Monitor show for CPU while the song is playing?
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
Increasingly I think this is really not a resources issue.
The CPU runs at around 45% during the generation stage prior to playing, runs up to around 70% when doing both generation and play and then drops to around 23% when generation has completed and it's only doing the play. It still breaks up at that 23%, just the same as at the 70%.
I've just tried a couple of other styles (_ROARING and _ORGANICS), which have similar CPU loads but play fine. Curiously both started a little higher (55%) and had a slightly lower peak (68%), which I suspect is just randomness, but might be relevant.
In an earlier test I set the "song has playback problems" set and it made no difference to the sound. It's now unset again.
Those readings are from Task Manager. I think Win 8.1 doesn't have Resource Monitor.
For now at least, I'm just going to ignore _UNLOVED and use some other style that works as it should. I spend too much time trying to track down oddities in how BiaB behaves.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
Gordon. Just some added thoughts..not sure how much help they’ll be. … if the unloved style works on another pc therefore i would conclude that its something in the celeron pc, and not the style … if i had problems with the unloved style eg the lead in or metronome or an RT Then i would mute that problematic trak. Eg replacing the metronome with a drum RT genned on a trak. … frankly i never bother with the bb metronome…i use a trick ie the first 4 bars of Any song use an rt a la D.d/D.d/D.d/D.d 4 bars lead in to a song using a 4 bar rt Where no other instruments play.
As i said before there are various utilities you can run to see if anything is interrupting the audio process…eg
Its all a process of elimination eh ? Ie try one thing …not that …try another etc etc
Just a nutty idea…does same prob occur in realband ?
Anyhoo thats all i got as ideas.
Frankly i dont like one drive laptops, too many probs ive seen with friends too …and agree with the microsoft product mgr for audio/midi (forgot his name) who owns a pretty snazzy recording rig…and published a very nice paper awhile back re daws. Ie he runs a desktop.
Happiness om
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
About the only thing I've been able reliably to prove is that _UNLOVED seems normally to not work, whilst other styles from similar ranges normally do work, though even that isn't 100%.
Muting tracks seems to have no effect. LatencyMonitor mostly says my PC is suitable, even when the sound is breaking up. WiFi might be relevant as at one point I could get the break-up or not depending upon whether WiFi is or is not on, but I can no longer get it it do that.
One place I may have been misleading myself is that when changing styles, the new style doesn't always appear, so when things have appeared to be working OK, I can now not be sure that it was really playing _UNLOVED. I believe that one only needs to click a style and then [OK] to set it, but that isn't always working, particularly again with _UNLOVED ... I can generally switch away at the first attempt, but getting it to select and use _UNLOVED seems to be difficult.
Another peculiarity is that the longest reported Interrupt run-times are reportedly the Microsoft HDAudioDriver (I'm using Focusrite, not HDAudio). So I tried changing from MME to the Focusrite ASIO driver. Now it plays much better, but I'm still getting that double-click on the count-in.
I've even selected no MIDI driver and no VSTi/DXi in case there's something there causing double-clicks and break-ups, but to no avail.
I've spent most of the day going round in circles with this. For now at least, I've had enough :-(
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
Just a nutty idea…does same prob occur in realband ?
It appears to be OK in RealBand. The count-in clicks are just single, the audio plays smoothly and with either the MME or Focusrite's ASIO driver.
I don't use this laptop for anything even remotely heavy-lifting. It's just for accompaniment.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
Gordon. More thoughts… Can you please detail exactly what traks are glitching ? Cos it wasnt clear to me. Biab metronome ? an rd lead in ? or rt ? a utility trak ? A melody or solo trak ? audio trak or midi trak ? Does the glitch occur in the standalone biab plug in ?
The fact that rb works i feel is telling…it would lead me to suspect that the style is not at fault cos rb uses bb as the background creation engine in genning traks.
Its nice that latency mon reports the celly is ok for audio.
Re wifi i would turn off wifi completely when doing songs ….if with wifi off … glitches disappear then only conclusion is wifi tasks are interrupting The audio tasks which can occur on a one drive system. If you doubt me go back a few years going thru a pro recording forum like Gearspace.com where big studios hang out. The golden rule in studios used to be No wifi on recording pc’s and use a separate pc for the net which is why i’m typing this on a cheapie hundred quid chromebook and not the studio pc which i dont want to get gunked up. My wife has a cheapie amazon fire for the net. Great little tablet for peanuts.
Best…give my regards to hampshire…a grrreat county. i'm not much of a drinker , but great pubs there with ploughmans lunches...lol i always wanted to own a pub there called... 'the pi**ed kitten' thought it was a fun name....lol.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 04/07/2209:54 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
My best bet here is to try to get a video or at least an audio that demonstrates the problem. I'll try to get that tomorrow, even if I end up recording on a 'phone.
I think I agree it's probably not the style itself, particularly as the RB of it seems fine, though as I mentioned earlier, the same style on my i5 running either Win10 or AVL:MXE Linux, whilst apparently playing the audio OK, does give double-clicks on the count-in.
Am I right in thinking you're in Essex? Or am I conflating you with Bob Calver who definitely is. FWIW if you are, I lived there for a few years and keep my boat over there now ... a 92-year old gaffer with her survey planned for Wednesday. I take the laptop with me. I have a Q49 MIDI keyboard on board. Internet via the 'phone horspot.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
Trying a video screen-capture made the sound much worse and not representative, so I used a camera. There's a very dodgy video below showing the behaviour.
It isn't so easy in this to hear the double-click on the second and subsequent count-ins, probably as I recorded speakers and the room reverb blurred it.
The change in volume for the clicks is clear. The sound break-up is conspicuous. This is with MME as the audio driver. Focusrite's ASIO is very much better, though not perfect.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
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RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
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