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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 18
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OP
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Posts: 18 |
Does the new version of BIAB support Apple silicon natively? There is no reference to it in either the feature & video overviews?
Last edited by ColinMc1; 06/13/22 07:22 PM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 836
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
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Posts: 836 |
If you are using a Mac with an ARM processor then it will need Rosetta to run.
Best,
Chantelle
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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OP
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Thx Chantelle.
Are there any plans / timelines to support Mac ARM processors natively?
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Jan 2022
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PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
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Posts: 176 |
Hello ColinMc1,
We currently don't have a timeline for native support on ARM processors.
Best,
Jerry
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Thx Jerry,
If it is possible / easier, the preference would be to have native support for the VST version of BIAB to enable to run DAW's natively - that would be great. BIAB is now one of the few remaining plug-ins that require to run my DAW (Cubase Pro 12) under Rosetta vs native.
The standalone BIAB programe works perfectly fine under Rosetta and I am good with that.
Last edited by ColinMc1; 06/14/22 11:19 PM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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I'm disappointed with the lack of progress or even news about a future M1 native version that does not require Rosetta. I'm a longtime customer, but I'm not buying again until there's a native M1 version.
I understand how hard it is for a small company with an aged code base to migrate to a new approach. My suspicion is it will never happen because the code base and compiler are so ancient. At some point, Apple will stop supporting Rosetta and then what?
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,831
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,831 |
Band-in-a-a box runs great and fast on Silicon M1 (and x86). Here’s why… The first time the BiaB x86 program is run in a silicon machine, Rosetta 2 does a one-time translation to Silicon. So the first run takes about 5 seconds longer than normal to get started. But on subsequent runs, it runs using the translated silicon code and boots up and runs very fast . A Band-in-a-Box.aot file is created (hidden) in the system which is the “ahead of time” translation file. And that’s what runs every time, not the x64 program app . This means there isn’t emulation running when you are using the program, since it using the previously translated aot app. This is all behind the scenes and it happens to all kinds of programs including Microsoft x86 “Office” programs run on a Silicon m1. Apple describes their process here https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple-silicon/about-the-rosetta-translation-environmentApple hasn’t said they will ever kill Rosetta 2. Why would they? It translates programs to run on Silicon, and it works great. Apple could kill or change a lot of things that would make BiaB stop working (apple installer, core audio, SU plugins, graphics, QuickTime, midi support). We’ve dealt with those successfully for 32 years, and plan to continue that way. For example, the change to Catalina on x86 years ago broke lots of things in BiaB (and many programs) that we needed to fix (and did). For example, Apple installer changed all kinds of things regarding installing programs to drives other than system drive - that would stop even a silicon native program from installing if it was using old methods. btw) we are looking into getting the translation to Silicon done during installation, so that the very first run on Silicon doesn’t have a delay.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Dec 2011
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That was very informative - particularly given I’m close to purchasing a new Mac.
Thanks!
Bud
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,831
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
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> That was very informative - particularly given I’m close to purchasing a new Mac.
Bud,
Yes, you’ll love the new Macs for many reasons, and BiaB works great on them too.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Thank you for the details.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 861
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Thanks for the information. More than I knew when I started
However, the extra layer (rosetta) of translation is clearly an inefficiency and destined to produce headaches both for developers and users. We've seen these kind of things time and time again over the decades.
IMO,
An obvious reason to stop supporting x86 translation is Apple makes the M1 chip. Apple wants users to upgrade to M hardware. It makes them more $$$. It makes development easier. It also stops supporting a competitor. Soon there will be no Apple hardware running Intel chips. RIP Rosetta shortly thereafter.
Add me to the list of those long time users who feel that a native M version of BIAB is an important criteria to purchase future upgrades.
Disappointing.
Last edited by mrgeeze; 06/16/22 05:57 AM.
biab2024(Mac) Latest Build
Mac OS (Latest)
Apple Mac Mini M2 pro 32GB Ram
Logic Pro 11
Irwin Vice Grip Fencing Pliers
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,831
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
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Posts: 15,831 |
Band-in-a-Box 2022 Mac runs 50% faster on typical Silicon M1 vs typical Intel Macs.
There is no degradation or slow down, it runs faster. That includes bootup, generating and rendering songs.
We will post some benchmarks in a few days. But the fastest and best experience for Band-in-a-Box on a Mac is on the Silicon M1 chips.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Feb 2021
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Add me to the list of users disappointed that there are no current plans to provide Native Apple Silicon Support for BIAB. I have begun the process of dumping software vendors who do not seem interested in providing Native Apple Silicon Support (Native Instruments and Waves being a couple of them). I still haven't decided if I am going to upgrade to BIAB 2022 as I was under the impression from earlier discussions with PG Music customer service that Native Apple Silicon Support was going to be included in the upgrade. Given that the attitude seems to be that it runs "good enough" under Rosetta I do not get a good feeling that we will ever see a Native Apple Silicon version. If I have misinterpreted the stance by PG Music please let me know.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,831
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
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> Add me to the list of users disappointed that there are no current plans to provide Native Apple Silicon Support for BIAB. I expect that we will have a silicon native version sometime in the future, especially as the share of Macs with M1 chips rises. The M1 machines have been around for less than 2 years now. It’s not simply a matter of recompiling, all of the various tools we use to make the programs also need to get updated, which takes time. But the “good news” in the silicon/m1 story is happening right now that the programs like Band-in-a-Box 2022 on Silicon/M1 already speed up 50% compared to running with intel Macs.. ======== fwiw) For those interested, for many programs, there isn’t much (if any) speed improvements of native programs vs Rosetta programs. Both the Rosetta-run programs and the native ones get about the same huge speed boost on the M1 machines , as you can see below…. Have a look at this YouTube review where a music program is cpu/performance tested (Rosetta vs native M1). The tester went in assuming native would be better performance and less cpu usage, but that’s not what he found. https://youtu.be/o0-j7ovw4Q8?t=410 Of course the performance was fantastic on both the Rosetta and native versions - the tester just didn’t find that the performance of the native one was better than the Rosetta.. And there’s a reason for this. As I explained above - Band-in-a-Box already runs 50% faster on M1 machines than Intel. Because Rosetta is not emulating. It does a one time translation of the program from x86 instructions to M1 silicon (arm) . From then on , the program is always running using the translation. So would BiaB run much faster if it was native on a M1 - the answer would be probably ‘no‘ based on the results in tests of similar programs. Note that some graphics intensive programs like Photoshop do speed up , because they rewrite routines specific parts of the program for GPU and CPU M1/arm Not many companies have the resources to do that, and BiaB wouldn’t benefit as it isn’t graphics/cpu intensive to begin with. =====
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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I can confirm BIAB 2022 does run faster on my M1 MacBook Air than my 18 Core iMac Pro. Not a great deal faster but it’s noticeable.
Where Rosetta 2 is an issue is trying to get Native apps to run with non-Native plugins. So far, there have been workarounds for everything I’ve been testing.
It’s a process still in transition and Inot transparent like Rosetta in OS 10.6 was. Thank goodness it’s not as clumsy as the migration from OS 9 to OS X with Classic Mode that wasn’t even available on the G5.
BIAB 2024 Audiophile Mac
24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Mar 2022
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I'm about to buy a new Mac, and have been waiting for the M2 MacBook Air. The new BB version supports the M1. Should I have any concerns about it's function with an M2?
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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I'm about to buy a new Mac, and have been waiting for the M2 MacBook Air. The new BB version supports the M1. Should I have any concerns about it's function with an M2? Absolutely none. The base M2 is about 25% faster than the base M1 but system and apps function identically. We have an M1 MB Air for my wife's work. I've ordered the M2 for myself to get the MagSafe charging port instead of USB-C.
BIAB 2024 Audiophile Mac
24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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OP
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The DAW Plugin build 4.8.7 NOW supports Apple Native Silicon. I upgraded and BIAB VST plug-in now appears when Cubase Pro is running native - no configuration required, just works. This was a very pleasant surprise when I read the release notes.
Great work Peter & team, much appreciated as now I no longer need to run my DAW under Rosetta.
Many thanks
Last edited by ColinMc1; 10/06/22 06:06 AM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,828
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,828 |
DAW Plugin build 4.8.7 NOW supports Apple Native Silicon Beat me to the punch. Way cool!
BIAB 2024 Audiophile Mac
24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 23
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Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 23 |
The DAW Plugin build 4.8.7 NOW supports Apple Native Silicon. I upgraded and BIAB VST plug-in now appears when Cubase Pro is running native - no configuration required, just works. This was a very pleasant surprise when I read the release notes.
Great work Peter & team, much appreciated as now I no longer need to run my DAW under Rosetta.
Many thanks Excellent!!
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
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