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What We Hear Versus What Was Planned (Discussion) #727722 08/15/22 08:32 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,814 Winston Salem, NC USA Jim Fogle OP Veteran
OP Jim Fogle Veteran Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,814 Winston Salem, NC USA	I listened to forum member, Sundance, +++ COVER +++ of Michael Jackson & the Jackson Five's song, "I Wanna' Be Where You Are". One of the things that struck me is how different the cover is from the original recording. That in itself is not new as there are many instances where a cover has taken a song in a new direction. One example is the original "Mother Nature's Son" by +++ The Beatles +++ versus a cover by +++ John Denver +++. It amazes me how someone can hear a song in a new and different way. All of that is so I can get around to asking this question, "When you use Band-in-a-Box to produce a song can you maintain the song as you first envisioned it or does Band-in-a-Box influence the final production results?" Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk Sonar - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Re: What We Hear Versus What Was Planned (Discussion) Jim Fogle #727725 08/15/22 08:41 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,035 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,035 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	As a composer I don’t do covers, although I do sometimes do transcriptions for pay. BIAB absolutely always sends me in a different direction than I had envisioned, and I think that’s great! BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.

Re: What We Hear Versus What Was Planned (Discussion) Jim Fogle #727733 08/15/22 09:46 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 621 Hockley, TX B Byron Dickens Journeyman
Byron Dickens Journeyman B Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 621 Hockley, TX	I actually don't use BIAB much, but when I do, that's exactly what I use it for: to take me off in a different direction than I would go otherwise. Byron Dickens BIAB. CbB. Mixbus 32C 8 HP Envy. Intel core i7. 16GB RAM W10. Focusrite Scarlett 18i 20. Various instruments played with varying degrees of proficiency. https://soundcloud.com/athanorsoundlabs

Re: What We Hear Versus What Was Planned (Discussion) Byron Dickens #727734 08/15/22 09:54 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jun 2020 Posts: 2,571 United States Bass Thumper Veteran
Bass Thumper Veteran Joined: Jun 2020 Posts: 2,571 United States	I agree with the gentlemen above. Almost without exception, when I approach BiaB with a song idea in my head that I really want to create, that once I get going, I find myself "off the path" that I started on. I suppose that could be viewed as lack of discipline(bad) or flexibility(good). Forced to choose, I'd say good. https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.

Re: What We Hear Versus What Was Planned (Discussion) Jim Fogle #727746 08/15/22 12:50 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 23,216 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 23,216 Hamlin NY	Jim, my answers to those two questions are yes and yes. Sometimes I know exactly what I want and what style to use to achieve it. But many times BiaB leads me down a different path. BiaB is great for learning and creating new genres. If I didn't have BiaB I wouldn't be doing half of the music that I am doing today. Whenever I get something stuck in the back of my throat, I dislodge it by drinking a beer. It's called the Heineken Maneuver. 64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

Re: What We Hear Versus What Was Planned (Discussion) Jim Fogle #727760 08/15/22 02:58 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,814 Winston Salem, NC USA Jim Fogle OP Veteran
OP Jim Fogle Veteran Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,814 Winston Salem, NC USA	For me it's very easy to fall down the rabbit hole that is all things Band-in-a-Box and lose my original song arrangement or concept in the process. I can easily audition styles and RealTracks for hours! When I think a song is interesting enough to retain the original I'll generally take a couple steps that help me to keep on track. One is to make a rough draft audio file. It might just be me humming, playing a guitar or singing but I catch what I can while the song is fresh on my mind. Second is to make audio notes detailing what I want in each segment of a song. Between the two if I get led too far astray I have audio to remind me of my original idea. Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk Sonar - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Re: What We Hear Versus What Was Planned (Discussion) Jim Fogle #727772 08/15/22 11:15 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2016 Posts: 6,960 Cooran Queensland Australia rayc Veteran
rayc Veteran Joined: Apr 2016 Posts: 6,960 Cooran Queensland Australia	As I use mostly my own playing I have a fair idea of what I want to do and the prog doesn't dictate direction much. I use it occasionally to try a different style or flip between options I'd planned, (like the jazz n rock versions of the same song I recently posted). Mother Natures Son has few excellent covers - Denver's is a winner in the direction it takes the guitars but his vocal seems out of place. Nilsson's voice with Tipton's arrangement made it something different and interesting but "soft" as the mawkishness of McCartney seemed to appeal to Harry. It's part the iconic nature of the original and partly that it's a complex but not very exciting song...soporific even. Using BIAB to create a cover can be problematic as it can, as shown, make things rather bland/generic unless care is taken. I did one cover earlier this year - my 1st - and I deliberately took it in a different, aggressive direction but the process began with a BIAB style in mind - though it was heavily altered with me adding bass, guitars and "vocal". Last edited by rayc; 08/15/22 11:15 PM. Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe

Re: What We Hear Versus What Was Planned (Discussion) Jim Fogle #727836 08/16/22 09:17 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,814 Winston Salem, NC USA Jim Fogle OP Veteran
OP Jim Fogle Veteran Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,814 Winston Salem, NC USA	I would think the more tracks a user creates for a song project the less opportunity Band-in-a-Box has to take your vision in a new direction. For example I believe it would be difficult to go too far off track with user created keyboard, guitar and vocal tracks. One of the nice things about Band-in-a-Box is you do not need to be a vocalist or musician to enjoy using it. But depending exclusively on Band-in-a-Box limits a user's ability to determine the outcome. Some ways a non musician or vocalist user can personalize tracks is through editing MIDI, choosing a virtual instrument or applying loops. All of those choices go outside the Band-in-a-Box norm but are available for use in Band-in-a-Box. Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk Sonar - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Re: What We Hear Versus What Was Planned (Discussion) Jim Fogle #727842 08/16/22 10:52 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,343 Middlesex, NC Guitarhacker Veteran
Guitarhacker Veteran Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,343 Middlesex, NC	It's always a chart smashing hit in my head..... now, If I can just get that to translate to the demo. Actually, No. What I hear in my head for a given song always takes a different route when I select the style and start working on the song in BB. I can't say it's a lesser version because that's not true. It's just that it rarely ever turns out exactly like I was envisioning the song. Like I said, different doesn't mean it's not as good. It just means that it took a slightly different route in the audio world. And sometimes, it actually does turn out better than I was hearing it in my head. Those are the magical ones. You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.

Re: What We Hear Versus What Was Planned (Discussion) Guitarhacker #727861 08/16/22 02:54 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 621 Hockley, TX B Byron Dickens Journeyman
Byron Dickens Journeyman B Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 621 Hockley, TX	To Originally Posted By: Guitarhacker It's always a chart smashing hit in my head..... now, If I can just get that to translate to the demo. You're not using the right magic VST plugin. Byron Dickens BIAB. CbB. Mixbus 32C 8 HP Envy. Intel core i7. 16GB RAM W10. Focusrite Scarlett 18i 20. Various instruments played with varying degrees of proficiency. https://soundcloud.com/athanorsoundlabs

Re: What We Hear Versus What Was Planned (Discussion) Jim Fogle #727862 08/16/22 03:09 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2013 Posts: 2,732 St. Louis, MO. USA sslechta Veteran
sslechta Veteran Joined: Dec 2013 Posts: 2,732 St. Louis, MO. USA	. Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in) if-you-try-to-produce-music-with-no-vst-plugins-youre-gonna-have-a-bad-time.jpg (40.52 KB, 151 downloads) Steve BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics. PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory

Re: What We Hear Versus What Was Planned (Discussion) sslechta #727864 08/16/22 03:36 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Aug 2014 Posts: 8,335 North Carolina David Snyder Veteran
David Snyder Veteran Joined: Aug 2014 Posts: 8,335 North Carolina	Hey Buddy Steve!! Man,some VST plugins ARE magic. I have a close to 1,000. The one I would never give up is free and it's by Sonible and Focusrite, called "Balancer." I use it on every mix on almost every track. It is extremely lightweight and non-intrusive but it will, among other things, make that BIAB acoustic, or piano, or cello sound exactly the way you want it to, or close, in half a second. https://www.sonible.com/balancer/ But then, there is also Abbey Road Chambers by Waves, or the TG Mastering Desk and hundreds of other things I can't live without now. Plugins are cool!! But, if I could only have one.... Balancer. And it's free. David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers https://davidsnydersongs.com/ https://spoti.fi/359Gigs www.davidsnydermusic.com/ www.reverbnation.com/davidpsnyder www.soundcloud.com/davidsnyderchannel https://www.songtradr.com/user/profile/david.snyder

Re: What We Hear Versus What Was Planned (Discussion) Jim Fogle #727870 08/16/22 05:07 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2016 Posts: 6,960 Cooran Queensland Australia rayc Veteran
rayc Veteran Joined: Apr 2016 Posts: 6,960 Cooran Queensland Australia	David, I watched the Focusrite vid for Balancer...interesting short cut thing. I've downloaded it to experiment...can't hurt to play with it can it? Thanks. Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe

Re: What We Hear Versus What Was Planned (Discussion) Jim Fogle #727871 08/16/22 06:00 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2016 Posts: 6,960 Cooran Queensland Australia rayc Veteran
rayc Veteran Joined: Apr 2016 Posts: 6,960 Cooran Queensland Australia	BUMMER, needs an activation code from a current Focusrite account. My Gen 1 Solo is out of date so no go. Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe

Re: What We Hear Versus What Was Planned (Discussion) rayc #727878 08/16/22 10:51 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 825 Germany CeeBee Expert
CeeBee Expert Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 825 Germany	Originally Posted By: rayc BUMMER, needs an activation code from a current Focusrite account. My Gen 1 Solo is out of date so no go. Strange, my account for my Gen 1 Scarlet 8I6 worked fine. Chris

Re: What We Hear Versus What Was Planned (Discussion) Jim Fogle #727921 08/17/22 07:13 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2017 Posts: 1,813 Sillie Con Valley, California Mike Halloran Expert
Mike Halloran Expert Joined: Apr 2017 Posts: 1,813 Sillie Con Valley, California	Originally Posted By: Jim Fogle … All of that is so I can get around to asking this question, "When you use Band-in-a-Box to produce a song can you maintain the song as you first envisioned it or does Band-in-a-Box influence the final production results?" Yes. It all depends what I’m going for. BIAB 2024 Audiophile Mac 24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5

Re: What We Hear Versus What Was Planned (Discussion) Jim Fogle #727927 08/17/22 08:26 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,814 Winston Salem, NC USA Jim Fogle OP Veteran
OP Jim Fogle Veteran Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,814 Winston Salem, NC USA	Mike Halloran, How do you maintain your first vision of a song project as you heard it in your head while not letting Band-in-a-Box not influence the final product? If I audition styles those styles influence me. Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk Sonar - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Re: What We Hear Versus What Was Planned (Discussion) CeeBee #727950 08/17/22 10:43 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2016 Posts: 6,960 Cooran Queensland Australia rayc Veteran
rayc Veteran Joined: Apr 2016 Posts: 6,960 Cooran Queensland Australia	Originally Posted By: CeeBee Originally Posted By: rayc BUMMER, needs an activation code from a current Focusrite account. My Gen 1 Solo is out of date so no go. Strange, my account for my Gen 1 Scarlet 8I6 worked fine. I've always had trouble with mine - may just be me CeeBee. BUT it's now irrelevant as Sonible sent a key with the sign up confirmation so I can grab it and David was correct - free. Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe

Re: What We Hear Versus What Was Planned (Discussion) Jim Fogle #728006 08/17/22 04:11 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2020 Posts: 309 H Henry Clarke Journeyman
Henry Clarke Journeyman H Joined: Apr 2020 Posts: 309	When I do a cover I have a certain style in mind and BIAB is great for letting me flush that idea out. That's one of the things I like best about the product. So yes, BIAB does influence the production result. For example my latest cover is a soul song but I wanted to use a Bossa Nova Rhythm. BIAB was excellent in helping me work that out. When I did "Walk On BY' as a Disco Song BIAB Certainly influenced that outcome. So for me I would have to say that BIAB definitely influences the outcome based on Rhythm, key instruments that I use, etc..

Re: What We Hear Versus What Was Planned (Discussion) rayc #728214 08/19/22 07:41 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2016 Posts: 6,960 Cooran Queensland Australia rayc Veteran
rayc Veteran Joined: Apr 2016 Posts: 6,960 Cooran Queensland Australia	Originally Posted By: rayc Originally Posted By: CeeBee Originally Posted By: rayc BUMMER, needs an activation code from a current Focusrite account. My Gen 1 Solo is out of date so no go. Strange, my account for my Gen 1 Scarlet 8I6 worked fine. I've always had trouble with mine - may just be me CeeBee. BUT it's now irrelevant as Sonible sent a key with the sign up confirmation so I can grab it and David was correct - free. Then again..my problems with FREE suppliers continues. The key isn't enough, nor an account...it required ONLINE authentication. Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe

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