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Journeyman
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Aren't the sounds in ANY synthesizer GM? No, not every synth has a GM sound set, though many (most?) do. First example that comes to mind is a Moog .. yeah I'm that old. There are modern day examples also. Yup. The Kurzweil PC4 doesn't have a GM bank. (The PC2 and PC3 both do.)
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eddie1261
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eddie1261
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This isn't even true in Biab. There are some differences between the Cyote Wavetable sounds, and the Roland TTS (which I think sounds better. Probably people who can add more explicit detail can continue this conversation.
Did you mean the Cakewalk TTS?
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Eddie, The Cakewalk TTS-1 is an OEM product created by Roland for Cakewalk. It replaced and is derived from Roland's Edirol HyperCanvas software. +++ Sound-On-Sound Article link +++
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There are so many GM sound sets based on Roland stuff it's silly.
Even the lowly Windows sounds are based on the most basic version of a Roland GM sound set. (though made even more degraded by MS turning it into a soundfont format and having Windows handling that) .. but you didn't hear that from me. Back in the day you could replace the GM.DLS file with a renamed SF and it worked fine. I used to be able to work with a 128 meg SF instead of their 3.5 meg file.
Read the GMReadMe.txt file in your Windows\System32\Drivers folder.
Haven't figured out how to replace that file since W7 and W10. They made it almost impossible (though I'm sure there is a way). Just not worth effort with the multitude of other options now.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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eddie1261
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eddie1261
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So today's exercise was this.
I downloaded a MIDI file and imported it into both RB and BIAB. (3 different versions from 3 different sources.) The sounds were hideous but that wasn't the reason for the exercise.
I got the thing to play and exported it to an audio file (I used WAV.) I then restarted RB and imported that WAV file.
I then ran it through the ACW and once again, the chords as interpreted by RB were not even close. I mean like really not even close. The song was in C and the chords were Eb, and not even close to correct as the progression "progressed". I deliberately picked a song I know how to play so I knew what they were supposed to be. ("I Can't Give You Anything But Love")
HOW do you guys get that frickin' thing to work??? I have never had ACW come even close. I once put one of my own songs into it and it butchered that badly too.
The game here is that I want to take MIDI files, plug them into either software, get a workable WAV file out of it, then run ACW so I have a chord sheet. With that chord sheet I can then generate what I want from the style picker and then generate tracks with the sounds I want. Has anybody ever done those exact steps successfully?
I honestly still don't know what that Chord Wizard this is even for since it doesn't actually work.
To allude to another thread, talk about cheating...!!
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Eddie, which Audio Chord Wizard, or ACW for short are you using?
Realband has an ACW. Band-in-a-Box (BiaB) has a different ACW accessible as a button in the Audio Editor, on the Views button strip and two places in the menu bar. The Band-in-a-Box ACW is newer and more accurate than the RealBand ACW.
The RealBand ACW needs for the first bar setting to be as accurate as possible. The same can be said for the BiaB ACW but it does a better job of guessing where the first bar is.
If an audio file has modulations or tempo variations it helps the ACW if you separate the audio file into sections so the changes are minimized.
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The sounds were hideous but that wasn't the reason for the exercise. Eddie, I'm not sure if this might have been a contributing factor in the poor result. I expect ACW works better with a higher quality input file to analyse. I don't really know and am just thinking out aloud here.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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So today's exercise was this.
I downloaded a MIDI file and imported it into both RB and BIAB. (3 different versions from 3 different sources.) The sounds were hideous but that wasn't the reason for the exercise.
I got the thing to play and exported it to an audio file (I used WAV.) I then restarted RB and imported that WAV file.
I then ran it through the ACW and once again, the chords as interpreted by RB were not even close. I mean like really not even close. The song was in C and the chords were Eb, and not even close to correct as the progression "progressed". I deliberately picked a song I know how to play so I knew what they were supposed to be. ("I Can't Give You Anything But Love")
HOW do you guys get that frickin' thing to work??? I have never had ACW come even close. I once put one of my own songs into it and it butchered that badly too.
The game here is that I want to take MIDI files, plug them into either software, get a workable WAV file out of it, then run ACW so I have a chord sheet. With that chord sheet I can then generate what I want from the style picker and then generate tracks with the sounds I want. Has anybody ever done those exact steps successfully?
I honestly still don't know what that Chord Wizard this is even for since it doesn't actually work.
To allude to another thread, talk about cheating...!! Not exactly the steps you're taking because they don't work. Doesn't matter why because the end result you're seeking; "I want to take MIDI files, plug them into either software, get a workable WAV file out of it, then run ACW so I have a chord sheet. With that chord sheet I can then generate what I want from the style picker and then generate tracks with the sounds I want." can be done successfully in either BIAB or RB with the ACW like you describe. But there's a better way. Since you start with a MIDI file, it's much easier and faster to open that MIDI file in BIAB. BIAB will automatically detect the chords, populate the Chord Sheet, set the tempo, key signature and sets a MIDI Style and disables it so only the MIDI song on the Melody Track sounds out. As far as I know, this works with any MIDI file, even one you create. If you want to separate the midi channels onto individual Utility Tracks; After opening the MIDI file, reduce the BIAB Chord Sheet and select the MIDI file again and drag and drop the file anywhere on the Chord Sheet and BIAB will automatically separate and load each individual midi channel onto a Utility Track. Here's a Henry Clarke Video demonstrating and explaining all the steps. How I made a RealTrack and MIDI backing track in less than 10 minutes
BIAB 2026:RB 2026, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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Last time I weighed in on this topic I was almost rode out of town on a rail. So let me be careful.
I have done this sort of manipulation to recreate covers over the years likely as much as or more than most. My conconclusion is, if you need the chords - buy the sheetmusic, if you need the midi - purchase it from a professional (in fact HC provides recommendations for two sites and I fully concur). Anything else is just messin around - which maybe is what you want to do. But, nothing wrong with that.
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eddie1261
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eddie1261
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Charlie first. The key word in your reply was OPEN the file. I was IMPORTING it. I used OPEN and now I have a chord sheet. I didn't even listen to it because I really only wanted the chord sheet. I then saved that out as a BIAB file (MGX), then opened it in Real Band, where I prefer to work. I then transposed it to my key and adjusted the tempo. No issues there. Now I can dive into the chord chart and make the changes I want to make so I can do some chord substitutions with embellished chords and then run it through a different style. OPEN did the trick. Now to Dan, the whole idea was just to play with something I had never tried before but I knew had to be possible. I needed that chord chart just to build the foundation of the song. Now I need to build the upper floors. For example, the MIDI file went straight into the song with no intro. I know what I want to do for an intro, and I can now insert bars and write the chord progression I want to use for an intro. I get my chord charts from Chordie, and would never buy a MIDI file. The only reason I wanted a MIDI file was to see if this could be done so a free one from MIDIS'R'US or wherever was fine. I don't even care what it sounds like as I will never perform it anywhere. Remember my thing about covers vs originals. I would rather tell my true story than someone else's fiction. Like this one about dealing with PTSD that I did a few years ago. I Hope Somebody Cries Well, maybe I'll do THIS cover at Herbstock 2023... "By the time we got to Herbstock we were several dozen strong..."
Last edited by eddie1261; 11/07/22 03:07 AM.
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Eddie, glad open works for you. Other tips you may be unaware of since you don't use BIAB much and if you only are interested opening BIAB MIDI project for the Chords is to Open the MIDI file and change the Style that loads to a BIAB Blank Style (search StylePicker for Blank - there's 4-5 blank styles) and ERASE the imported MIDI file residing on the Melody Track and save the BIAB project as an SGU file rather than MGX. Doing this will open RB with Chords but no MIDI tracks you'll have to delete. Selecting one of BIAB's Metronome styles will load RB with chords and a click track set to the tempo of the BIAB file.
Since you also play keys, anything you may be working on using your keyboard, can be saved as a MIDI file and opened in BIAB loading the Chords, tempo, key signature, feel and a default Midi Style. Just saying homemade works equally well as professional store bought for how you're using MIDI.
What you're doing is a great way to quickly get from idea to BIAB project, including melodies.
BIAB 2026:RB 2026, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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eddie1261
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eddie1261
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Charlie!! My new hero!
This all worked really well. I had to do some adjusting of things not PG related (like enhanced chord voicing to use the Chordie chart chord names rather than the MIDI file chords) but the PG piece worked fine now that I learned what to do.
Working on songs for Herbstock 2023!!
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I'm not familiar with Chordie but if the program can export chords as text, BIAB can import chords in text format. You can bypass MIDI completely if that works for you.
Here is a BIAB demo sgu file saved as .txt file:
[Song] [Title _COOLEVE Demo - Cool Evening On Beach Swing]
[File _COOLEVE Demo - Cool Evening On Beach Swing.SGU]
[Key G ] [Tempo 85] [Form 1-16*3]
[.Sty _COOLEVE.STY] [Style Cool Evening On Beach Swing]
[Chords]
|:a) G| Am| Bm| Am|
| G| D| C|%|
|b) Em| Bm| C| Em|
| A| D| G Am| G:3X|end) G|
[ChordsEnd]
[SongEnd]
Note that you can save any BIAB file as a .txt file using the Save Special | Save song on clipboard or text file command. You can also create a complete BIAB file using text....
You can see the results of the above text chart using copy (Ctrl-C) to copy the text to your clipboard and opening a new BIAB session and use Ctrl-shift-V to paste the info onto the Chord Sheet. It's quite a trick. Have we unleashed the beast now that you have all this new knowledge?
BIAB 2026:RB 2026, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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eddie1261
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eddie1261
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Chordie is a web page that shows chord charts for a lot of songs. Just as images, not files to download and insert.
I never knew you could do any of that. The unleashed beast wants to have 6 or so songs for Herbstock 2023.
"By the time we got to Herbstock, we were coupl'a dozen strong..."
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Well I hope you experiment some with the chord text feature. You can input Styles, Part Markers (a and b only), number of bars, tempo, key signature, memo, title and more.
The only embellishments I do is stories. I'm curious but assume a text chord sheet will accept any chord that BIAB program accepts. Maybe you can "embellish" the chords above or 'save as text' to one of your existing embellished chord charts and share your results.
BIAB 2026:RB 2026, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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