PG Music Home Forums PG Music Wishlists Band-in-a-Box Wishlist Let's get radical.

I think this year may be the very first time I will bypass any update to Band In A Box.

I think each year we see more and more Real Tracks whilst midi seems to lack development. In reality I've never found a Real Track that is able to really be manipulated to write what I'm looking for.

Let's take a look at Strings.

They are impotent at best. No feeling, no counterpoint, backing strings only, no feeling. Imagine opening an 8 bar intro with a stunning fingerstyle and emotional string ensemble. Or maybe a Uilean pipe and Irish whistle intro leading in to a beautiful ballad.

Don't get me wrong. I like pop, rock etc. but todays 'music' isn't music. I admire a rap singers ability to utilise vocal slang in a song but this is NOT music. I can't justify the way digital 'cleverness' can [*****] tracks in the so called Billboard top 100. Who really buys this crap.

Real music comes from the desire to put down a meaningful lyric that is complimented by brilliant musical accompaniment. I know a catchy tune with silly lyrics can also make a poular way forward but it soon runs down the river in to the sea. Look at History. If we really want to listen, write, compose etc. we turn to Claasical or those Artists from the raw 60's, 70's and maybe some 80's. I'd go so far to include the 30's, 40's and 50's too.

I don't know what your looking for but are you getting what you think will help you write what you want with BB?

I'm frustrated by the complexity. If, as I have done., Learned guitar and keyboard, wrote lyrics and put instrumentation together and spent 10 years learning the hard way how to mix and master then I would hope for software that makes that journy easier. Band In A Box goes a good distance toward that but come on guys. Could you please stop throwing yet more and more Real Tracks at us that can only be utilised if we use your brilliant demos.

Crucify me if you must but throw me some constructive also. :-)

Mal,
I am trying to understand your frustrations. I will add some thoughts later, but can you clarify a few things.

When you talk about the "strings" are you talking classical, traditional or synth in BIAB?
Strings range from Andy Leftwich to Ed(Oz)...

Have you experimented with 2022 Multiriff and MicroChords features to make Tracks more flexible and to fit better into the idea?

Have you tried Tin Whistle (RTs 3770,3771,3876,3877)?
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What I like about BIAB that they are open to quite a few genres, but to your defense, I do feel that some styles / genres are being way under represented. For example Ska, Reggae, Surf Rock, Tango, Punk, Bossa and others. Also, I do believe some effort could be made in recording extra material specifically designated for intros, bridges etc.

I don't know what you mean by this:
"Could you please stop throwing yet more and more Real Tracks at us that can only be utilised if we use your brilliant demos."
I almost never use premade styles and/or demos. I use them to get a feel of the tracks, or a starting point and then would change them from ground up. Mostly I would just assemble my own "band".

As with anything, there are never "all hits". Almost any good music album will have 3-4 strong tunes, others would be pass throughs. Same here.

I honestly believe you have to put more focus on your request. Be more specific. For example: I want strings in style of Jascha Heifetz or Vanessa Mae, give links to examples. I have seen such requests that got attention from PG team.

As you said, "Band In A Box goes a good distance". Give specific examples of what you think can be done to improve it.
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My biggest frustrations with BIAB was limited number of tracks and unpredictable "generations".
Multiriff feature of 2022 solved unpredictable generations and extra tracks, which still need some work, gave the creative variety I was looking for. Believe me, I do have bag of my "wishes" for improvements, but overall I am happy with what BIAB has to offer. Especially at the price point.

P.S. There is a member on the forum / musician from Japan. He posts his music in the Showcase. What is interesting, sometimes he would offer two versions: One made with BIAB and the other of same composition played by real musicians. To me, most sound pretty close.

Thank you Rusty. You make valid points and I agree with most.

What I'm trying to do is ignite debate that may highlight improvements to unique software, that really stands apart from any other I have ever seen available.

May I say that any one person who sits and opens BB with the intention of creating a song will immediately be confronted with an extremely complex array of possibilities on how to proceed. Could an introduction of some (AI) tools be available to assist in the arduous process of putting together a song? Just as a photographer can use many AI plugins to shorten the process of achieving a successful end result. This is only one idea.

I don't want to draw attention to specific improvements, though they have been given much thought and implemented. I would rather ask those who use BB what they think could be implemented in updates to the software that would make significant improvements in making the programme better than anything else on the market, (I know it to be the best and only software that does what it does), that's why I want to strike a debate for developers. I would hope that includes making it easier to use.

Very grateful for your response.

Mal.

I can relate to this. My proficiency with BiaB is probably at a level 4 on a scale of zero to 10, and as you point out there is a complex array of possibilities every time you open the application. The main frustration I experience is having a groove/feel in my head that I just can't seem to replicate in BiaB. So I resort to living with the gap between what is desired and what I can achieve. Don't get me wrong, IMHO BiaB is in a class all it's own and is a fantastic tool.

My frustrations may be due to not having the additional add-on paks that are available, so next year I'll probably pay for one of the paks with the hope that I can produce arrangements closer to what I have in my head.

But regarding AI, are you familiar with AudioLM recently developed by Google? Perhaps something like this could be incorporated into BiaB at some point.

https://ai.googleblog.com/2022/10/audiolm-language-modeling-approach-to.html

Thank you Bass Thumper.

Yes I am familiar with Google's AudioLM. I find it exciting and maybe a great tool for lyrics too, as well as musical phrases. I was recently trying to extend an 8 bar piece of amazing fingerpicking in Nuendo but it was really hard work. This kind of AI would be able to handle it maybe. As with all new developments I would expect hiccups especially with the art of music.

I have all that BB has to offer but the complexity of putting together songa always leaves me frustrated and I generally just get the guitar or keboard and put things together with my lyrics instead.

I do agree that the new Multiriff and Microchords was a huge leap forward as mentioned by Rusty above. Intros also do need some more thought though.

There is an instrument I would dearly love to see. The Uilean Pipes. I can listen to a Gaelic/ Irish intro and be reduced to tears before the lyrics even set in. That is why I was disapointed to see so many reels, uptempo jigs etc. I hope there never is a Rap Real Track in the pipeline. Not dissing the Genre, it's a clever way of talking slang, rather than real music. That will no doubt cause a stir amongst many.

Seriously though, maybe some of the compilers, coders, would join in the debate, or maybe keep us hanging on in there till Xmas. Those with creativity and imagination in their genes are DIAMOND.

Mal.