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PowerTracks Pro Audio
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 6
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OP
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 6 |
Riddle me this, Batman: Howbeit that others have been using M-Audio with PowerTracks and I've experienced crashes for quite some time? Since I will be asked for these details I'll supply them now:
I'm using PowerTracks 12 on a machine with a 3 gig processor, 4 gig of RAM, two 2TB hard drives that are 10 times faster than the Raptor I first installed, running Windows XP SP3 with two Delta 1010s using the 5074 driver. I've tried it with and without selection of "disable asio direct monitoring." I've also tried the ASIO4all, but it didn't help. The wordclocks are locked via BNC connector. I've tried using the first as the source or slaving it to an external spdif at 44100. I'm using a 256 sample buffer (but I've adjusted this to no avail) at 44100 (variations to this were also attempted). This computer is for recording only, so there's no internet, no virus protection, etc.
I've also used PT11 with only XP SP2, a single Delta 1010, single and multiple 1010LTs, and the two previous M-Audio drivers. Currently, a friend of mine is also experiencing this problem running PT11 with two 1010LTs and the same M-Audio driver.
The actual problem:
During playback of seq or wav files PowerTracks crashes, apparently, only when I hit "stop," either by keyboard or mouse. It may be the first time or I may be able to start and stop playback a dozen times, but it always crashes. At that point I can ignore the crash message, save the file and even do another playback, but there's no audio. Only the MIDI continues to work.
What's not a problem:
I've been able to work on MIDI only sessions for many hours without incident. The audio works fine with Windows Media Player, Cool Edit Pro and various DVD players. I am also able to use the motherboard's sound with an MME driver, but I need to multitrack.
Obviously, I've tried to include everything I know. No doubt, it is what I do not know that is causing the problem.
I am thankful for all the highly experienced people who are able and willing to help me with this issue.
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PowerTracks Pro Audio
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,179
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Joined: May 2000
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Try running them in MME and see if the problem disappears, then we'll at least know it is ASIO related for sure.
Then decide if you actually need ASIO to get the work done.
I often use MME, and run ASIO only when I need it (ie playing a softsynth from a keyboard). MME will be much more stable, and is actually WDM drivers with the Delta.
You may want to try an older driver as a second test. I use older drivers.
Last edited by rharv; 01/11/11 08:26 AM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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PowerTracks Pro Audio
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 6
Newbie
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OP
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 6 |
WOW! Thanks for the quick reply. MME works. I did a start/stop 200 times without incident (other than my wrist getting sore). It's been so long since I used MME I didn't really regard it as a viable option.
As you can tell by my setup latency was a major concern (PCI interface, fast processor, RAM - I built the machine over 2 years ago, though). I read that the WDM KMixer adds 20-30ms of latency, the effect of which, I expect, gets compounded when using many channels & tracks. As I don't really expect PowerTracks to support WDM KS, getting the ASIO to work would be preferable, particularly since I am considering other PG Music products.
I've used M-Audio's 5057 & 5069 drivers before going to 5074. All had the same problem, although I do like the control panel in the last two better, as it makes it easier to monitor the hardware.
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PowerTracks Pro Audio
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,179
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,179 |
What are you using MIDI for? Do you actually play your softsynths from a keyboard?
That 20-30ms delay will not 'add up', as it is a buffer...
You'll get more reliable performance with MME/WDM
Last edited by rharv; 01/11/11 10:36 AM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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PowerTracks Pro Audio
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 6
Newbie
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OP
Newbie
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 6 |
Thanks for clarifying the buffer. I use MIDI for outboard gear - keyboards, drum machines, effects. It's much easier to make changes in the notation and event windows until the mix is finalized (except for audio). Strange - I never had much luck with PowerTracks mixer automation. Maybe I just need to spend more time with it.
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PowerTracks Pro Audio
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,179
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,179 |
Sounds like you don't have a need for ASIO, and was under the assumption it was 'better', which it isn't. Same exact sound and more reliable performance with MME/WDM. When you need ASIO features it is nice to have, but if not it is just putting extra load on the system.
Other things you could check to see if it is causing the ASIO crash-
Shared IRQ on the soundcard
Another program using the soundcard at the same time, or trying to call for it (ASIO is a one-at-a-time driver)
Mismatched bitrates
Card ASIO not unlocked so the host can control it.
There are other possible causes too.
If you can get the job done with MME you'll be saving possible headaches..
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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PowerTracks Pro Audio
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 6
Newbie
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OP
Newbie
Joined: Jan 2011
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O.K. Most of this makes sense. When you say, "Card ASIO not unlocked so the host can control it" you don't mean the wordclock sync do you? I don't see another place to lock/unlock. (The other three items are fine.)
You mentioned that external control of a soft synth might be a reason for using ASIO. Anything else to be aware of? Does this include DirectX/VST plugins? I recently acquired an external controller that I haven't even hooked up yet, but I was hoping to use it to manage effects on the fly.
You can probably tell you're at the edge of my knowledge. This is where I start asking stupid questions.
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PowerTracks Pro Audio
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,179
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Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,179 |
I use spdif to sync my cards when I do it. Didn't have access to a word clock. As far as I know the 1010lt's do not generate a word clock, but they can sync to one if available. I wonder if that is part of the issue? I've read of guys saying they did it using the BNC word clock connectors, but my manual says to use the spdif connection with a 75 ohm cable. If you have two cards locked together, it should stay locked. Here's a thread from another forum I try to keep handy- http://www.homerecordingconnection.com/forum.php?action=view_thread&id=11997&frm=5One more from M-Audio concerning word clock and various driver versions- http://forums.m-audio.com/showthread.php?312-1010lt-can-it-detect-word-clock-at-allSome newer driver versions don't fully support word clock, So I use spdif, keeps it simple. You'll only need ASIO for DX/VST effects if you intend to use them live; like recording vocals while listening to the reverb from a VST effect in real time, or recording the vocals with that reverb applied (why anyone would do this is beyond me). Using effects on recorded tracks does not require ASIO at all. Actually some effects themselves are more stable with MME, and a rogue effect can cause crashing also. There are a lot of things to keep an eye on with ASIO.
Last edited by rharv; 01/11/11 01:48 PM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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PowerTracks Pro Audio
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 6
Newbie
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OP
Newbie
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 6 |
Thanks for all your help.
I'm actually using the 1010s, having retired the 1010LTs. (Long story behind that.) Each unit can generate the word clock or slave to another via BNC or spdif. The actual hardware driver seems to work quite well. It was the previous version of the driver that pointed out that I once had a connection issue. (Turned out to be a bad cable.) There was a bug in the software two versions ago that said the connection was good when it really wasn't.
I do like to listen the reverb (and other effects) live because with all these tracks I am free to record them on separate tracks from the raw program material. It makes the overall sound more realistic when you are trying to capture an entire band. Then changing the levels and other aspects at a later time is a simple matter. But everybody has their favorite methods.
I will squirrel this information away with my other notes.
Once again, thanks for all your help. (Quick replies, too. I didn't have to remember what I was thinking two days ago or more!)
mzem
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PowerTracks Pro Audio
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 25
Enthusiast
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Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 25 |
mzem,
Tried ASIO & from PT forum advice, switched to MME some time ago and since then no probs with PT. Using MOTU 828 with older P4 laptop with just 1Gig memory and no hassles!!
Cheers,
BJ
So much to Learn!
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PowerTracks Pro Audio
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 6
Newbie
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OP
Newbie
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 6 |
How cool!
I love seeing people making progress! Sometimes I think it would be great if we could post our ideas and collaborate on the music, especially since we are already using the same software.
But, as you can tell, I am not an expert like rharv (hope I got the name right, as I'm not looking at it now). Actually, it was his past advice that lead me to believe that I could find a resolution here. (This is me hitting myself in the head - DOH!) Like an idiot it didn't occur to me to appeal to what used to be called a "user group" for expert knowledge. Gotta love those who dedicate themselves to helping us struggling users! Thanks again to him!
BTW, I only registered today and already the issue is resolved after fighting with it for about two years. (And I call myself a computer dude!)
idiots like me,
mzem
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