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I have seen mentioned several times people moving BIAB projects over to another DAW such as Reaper. I downloaded Reaper and was able to drag a project to it easily. I am curious as to why use another DAW as opposed to RealBand which is included with BIAB 2011. Is RB limited in capability compared to Reaper? I know every product has its learning curve but I don't want to waste alot of time unless there is some particular advantage to using another product. Perhaps people are using other DAWs as they already were experienced with them. Reaper does look good but does not have RB's features such as built in accompaniment or RT generation, etc. I'm just a little confused, any insight from other's experience would be much appreciated. Meanwhile, I'll just poke around with Reaper before the free trial runs out.
Thanks,
Tony
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I suspect you are getting some PM's. RB is absolutely great for what it was designed to do. But full featured DAW it is not. - Just my two cents others will have various opinions. I'll step back and duck now.  Oh, and by the way, Reaper is fantastic.
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD, 2TB WDC Blue SSD, 1TB WD Blue, 2 TB SK NVMe, 6 TB External, Motu Audio Express 6x6
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I would suggest that if you've already become somewhat familiar with BIAB, take advantage of the learning curve, great tech and forum support, and cost factors (it comes free with BIAB), and spend time to learn RB as your DAW until you get to a point that it cannot do something you need to do. I have found that it is very capable indeed as a DAW, and I suspect that it will be quite some time before you ever get to the point that it cannot accomplish what you need to do. At that point you have, at additional cost, some choices, and you can then go there if you feel the need.
Terry
BIAB/RB 2018 PlusPak. Dell Inspiron23 running Win10, 12GB RAM, 2.5GHz i7, Presonus AudioBox USB interface.
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For me it's a workflow progression system. Use BiaB as needed to design a song. Use RB to generate sections, edit tracks, re-render DXi tracks with different synths, record additional tracks, start on the mix. Many times I just finish in RB from there. If I like what I'm getting I just keep on tracking. If I need to do something RB doesn't do I'll jump to whatever other solution I have to get the job done. No qualms there. Point is, if I go to another DAW right away from BiaB, I give up a lot of options that RB retains for me until further down the road. Can't do a lot of work in Reaper, then regenerate a new bridge ... without the D&D dance a few times. That option to regenerate is priceless sometimes. I try to stay in RB as long as I can, even if I know I am eventually going elsewhere fo some certain thing. Just my workflow here. Tryin' to be efficient. BTW, a bunch of the Reaper VST's work in RB. I happen to like them, so there are ways to even combine some aspects..  As to whether RB is limited in some ways. Yes- RB doesn't do some things that Reaper does well Running VSTi plugins that require a tempo lock for processing the sound is one. Other ASIO aspects are another. Then again, as I mentioned; the regenerate thing, along with a couple others are unique to RB. It's all good.. or if it sounds good it is good. One of those.
Last edited by rharv; 01/27/11 07:55 PM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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How I work- After finishing the chart in biab with a style and rythum section generated, I open the project in RB. I then generate many tracks- to my hearts content really [I use all real tracks]. Whatever could possibly make the cut, I generate a clean performance. RB becomes a multitrack storage bin of generated tracks. Then I drag tracks over to Reaper for all editing and mixing. Most times not all tracks will make it over- just the ones that count. A song has a way of rejecting parts it doesn't need, all on it's own- if you're paying attention. But in doing this, it keeps the Reaper project uncluttered, which saves a ton of track count and even processing power, while the extra tracks remain in RB should I choose to use some after all.
RB is a necessary extension of biab if your projects involve large track counts. But instead of me spending time writing up tons of reasons why a daw like Reaper [or the other big ones] makes editing and mixing easier, just use the crap out of Reaper since you DL'd it. When you go back over to RB, the differences will become clear. Not because you know one better than the other at that point, but because you'll see very clearly where RB falls short in many areas compared. Reverse the equasion, if you will, and you'll see. And after the fact, you can still learn to fully use RB too. It's not nearly the learning curve of Reaper, and you can edit and mix and complete a project using it. But I found it to be pulling teeth- hair even. In it's own way it makes easy tasks harder and more finiky than a typical daw. But for me, all three are absolutely needed and I couldn't work without any one of them- biab, RB, and Reaper. Oh yeah, and real tracks too! God bless 'em!
As always, your mileage may vary.
Dan
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Its not the tool, its the carpenter...
--Mac
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Oui, Mac, when I live in Quebec me, you did that ting wif Chainsaw, bucksaw, small haxe and one box of big nail. Make da house. She's creak and groan in hin da win.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Not much different from the way we did things in Western Pennsylvania down near West Virginny where I grew up, John.
Same toolset, slightly different colloquialisms, but we got r done as well.
Not only da house creak an' groan ennat, but da outhouse as well.
--Mac
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Quote:
Its not the tool, its the carpenter...
--Mac
I agree however, the carpenter is really only as good as his tools.
Dan
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Hello Guys,
Thanks for all the different ideas on this. I didn't want to spend too much time on a tool that I would possibly outgrow before I mastered it. My learning curve is slowing as my age advances. It took a long time to figure out BIAB which I've gotten down pretty well but now have a project which needs more sophisticated mixing capabilities. I had a lot of experience on hardware mixers but more than 30 years have passed, maybe forgotten something plus there may have been some small changes in technology since then.
Thanks again,
Tony
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Dan i think that is true if you are taking about a stone hammer and a pnuematic nail gun. But when it comes to DAw software it is not about the quality of the tools as much as it is work flow. If the flow you use works use it, but don't doubt for a minute RB can mix and master with the best of them. Some of the best carpentry i ever saw came from old school carpenters from the old days with far less sophisticated equipment.
I have recorded in Cakewalk, Acid, Vegas, N-Track, PTPA, RB, Reaper, MTS, and a couple others. And personally the end results are very much the same. RB does not have quite as good of plugins as some others do, especially in the simplicity of them, but if you learn them, they are every bit as capable. Plus all the cakewalk, and Reaper plugs work in it.
I used to drop all finished tracks in MTS, and now i finish in RB. If i start a project in MTS, i finish it htere, or if i need something it does I move it there. However the last two i did i used RB alone and it was very solid and capable.
What Reaper excels at is routing. Being able to send any track, effect, and or process to any other you want. IMHO much of that is unneccesary. Some is cool, but the routing in Rb is not bad. Not mega optional, but very workable. If you have clean clear solid tracks, and you need to send them to effects that is doable, and master limiting and EQing is there. Anything other than that can very quickly become over kill. Rb routes very similar to Cakewalk's Sonar thru tracks to aux and master busses. That is the basis for not only Cakewalk, but Cubase, and Logic. They all work very similar. And all will mix and master if you learn the ways and master that process.
It boils down to what one wants to do, and how, and it that comfortable to them. One thing I found with myself, is that for the longest time I chased after the greatest and most feature ridden, fancy environment, and realized that it did not really matter learn to use your tools and learn the craft well.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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Like I said- your mileage may vary. I mixed in RB when I first started using it to check it out. Not only could I mix, but every single third party plugin showed up and worked well in RB- something that is not always the case in Reaper and other daws. But for me, there were things I could not deal with in RB. Can't even remember what exactly they all were, but one big one was the inability to manually advance the timeline by just clicking anywhere. Can't deal with that. But it's such a personal thing. You really have to make your own choices. The best part is that RB works in a number of ways, so it's not a bad thing at all. The way RB works can be proprietary in nature, so how you use it won't always carry over to the main stream daws. Learn one main stream daw, and you can get around all of them that much easier. But even considering that, proprietary software is nothing new and some of it is very much worth learning regardless. SAW software- another daw- is VERY good and worth learning it's proprietary ways. I sure did. The choice with all of this, is up to you. It's hard to go wrong really- in fact you can't, as far as the daw. They give you so much power, it's more likely YOU'LL be the one to get into trouble! LOL! Good luck.
Dan
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Hi Tony,
I use BIAB, RB and Reaper.
I too use BIAB to compose and construct my songs. When I have the chord progression, melody, lyrics and style finalized, I then move to RB.
In RB, I play around with adding different Realtracks and Realdrums and until I get a sound that works best for me. I also use RB to piece together solos and fills for my final mix. In addition to this, I find using TC Helicon for harmonies is much easier in RB than BIAB.
While I have mixed songs in RB, the reason I use Reaper is because I like using envelopes to control my sound. Mostly I use volume envelopes on individual tracks to balance the mix but sometimes, I use envelopes on controls of my plugins. Reaper is very good at this. I also find the pitch correction plugin (Reatune) very valuable for manually correcting notes that might not be quite right. I record vocals in Reaper and when I have the vocal track exactly how I like it, if I need to add harmony, I take it to RB and use TC Helicon and then bring the harmony tracks into Reaper for mixing with the vocal.
I find all three pieces of software indispensable.
Regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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Tried opening the reatune in RB? May save a step along the way. Less bouncing back -n- forth.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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I hear you guys, and i also get it. AS I used MTS much like you use Reaper. It really does boil down to needs. Most of what i mix today is for live playing, not as much for recorded original stuff. I am planning a CD and am gathering material now, so we will see how it goes. Full automation is one area where RB lags a bit. The mixer moves don't get it for me. I did learn recently you can draw in these things although i have not tried it yet.
To me if PG were to add node based automation, and finish the VSTi implementation i could not imagine needing anything more personally. I apologize if anything i said came off harsh, I guess it rankles me when folks say RB is not a full on DAW. Just because it lacks a feature or two that what others call Main stream DAWs do. I feel this way in part because even the so called main street DAWs all lack one or another feature that the competitor has it does not matter which one you look at you can find one of two areas that they need to improve in, and RB is no different, but where it lacks it also excels in other areas. No single DAW does it all, and does it all well.
I also will admit i am a bit touchy on the subject of Reaper. It seems that Reaper followers are almost rabid over that product, and every forum you visit has some one pushing Reaper as the holy grail of DAWs. It is a good one, but it still lags behind the biggies in some areas. It is growing rapidly though. Secondly it never worked well on my system, and it crashed a lot.
Anyway, like Mr Dan said "your mileage may vary" to each there own, we all get to choose what we want in this arena.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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Quote:
Tried opening the reatune in RB?
Thanks rharv. As strange as it might seem, it never occurred to me to try that. I'll give it a go next song.
Regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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I have had many "why didn't I think of that?" moments on this forum ..
hopefully it works a treat and saves some steps. I have some ReaPlugs installed in RB and they work fine. I use a different tuner though, so can't vouch for that one. Let us know how it works, will ya? So we know there is another option available; I'm interested.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Hi rharv,
I tried to load reatune.dll into Realband but was not successful. I haven't yet played around with it too much, though, to see if there might be other ways of doing this. As a point of interest, I was also unsuccessful in getting Reatune to work in Sonar Home Studio 6XL.
Regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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Quote:
I tried to load reatune.dll into Realband but was not successful.
I do believe that only the Reaper VSTs labeled as 'stand-alone' will work outside of Reaper.
the Insolent LadEnough small empty boxes thrown into a big empty box fill it full. ~Carl Sandburg
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I use BIAB to generate backing tracks or to flesh out ideas for new songs using the melodist and soloist features.
I then drag and drop the tracks I want to use into Reaper and record and mix from there.
RealBand is a great program, but I was never able to get it to work on my computer. Reaper, on the other hand, installed perfectly and works without a glitch.
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