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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 134
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 134 |
I recently started assisting in some country music productions where I used BIAB to help flesh out an arrangment for a demo. In the course, the singer stated he wished he could have a pedal steel guitar on his headphone mix for a song.
I surprised him by using the Real Tracks pedal steel from the Real Tracks country style that ships with regular BIAB. It actually worked pretty well for a background sound for a headphone mix ... but was obviously not really adequate for serious production.
After I found several other Real Track instruments I thought would be useful ... the usual suspects of pedal steel, sax, fiddle and dobro that don't translate well or easily from midi ... I thought I would research the Audiophile pak.
I contacted PG Music sales and asked them if the information about the specific original keys used in recording each Real Track was available. They responded ... over a series of e-mails ... that, no, this was not available, but that each instrument would plays the "full range of chords" and that the number of original key recordings done for each instrument varied.
I was a little disappointed because I would like to be able to minimize any pitchshifting, if not avoid it entirely ... but I did agree that pitch shifting of +/- 2 semitones could be acceptable.
So I then asked if they could tell me how many original key recordings were done for each of the specific instruments above that I was insterested in. They responded that this information was unavailable.
That was very disappointing as now I had no way to know whether a single Real Track was in fact going to be shifted a full +/- six semitones or more.
Any one have any insight o this?
Prado
Edited for typos.
Last edited by Prado; 02/04/11 02:11 PM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616
Expert
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Expert
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616 |
The 'older' RTs installed with 3 different versions for each instrument. From what I can tell, they are the same phrases but transposed. BIAB uses these when generating a RT. If you have those, look in the folders and you'll the three for each 'phrase' The variations will have either a +/- following the file name. I don't know how they generated these but it may help if you listen to the variations in a media player.
The new BIAB RT engine seems to do a great job transposing thus eliminating the need for the +/- files.
R
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7,673
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7,673 |
Hello Prado,
Most RealTracks are recorded in 6 keys originally. Pitch shifting greater than +/- 1 or 2 doesn't happen, and is not a significant source of audio artifacts or degredation. We record in the most popular keys for the instrument, so I suspect that if you want the least amount of pitch shifting to happen, you could simply use one of the six most popular keys. Does that answer your question?
Andrew
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 134
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 134 |
Almost.
What then would be the least amount of original key recordings for any Real Track instrument in the Audiophile (or regular) pak? (The ones left over after "most" are done in 6 original keys.) That was the specific question the sales department told me they did not have "available" information to answer.
But so far ... fantastic news, Andrew. Six would be great as long as they're the instruments I'm interested in: pedal steel, sax, dobro and fiddle.
While I'm on the topic and without broaching proprietary technical knowledge <wink & a grin> ... how does the algorithm know whether to pitch up or down when you select a non-popular key?
Prado
Last edited by Prado; 02/04/11 01:57 PM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7,673
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7,673 |
I don't believe there are any with fewer than 5. It's not quite that simple, since pitch shifting may be used for a variety of reasons, for example to increase musical variety and access uncommon chords/progressions. We've never sacrificed musical quality to reduce file size - enough material is recorded that you can choose any key, and pitch-shifting isn't an issue in the way that you're thinking...
Andrew
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,697
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,697 |
A lot of us here have varying degrees of past or current studio experience and we have very good ears. We were universally concerned about erasing those +/- files thinking just how good is this new thing going to sound because we're all familiar with Adobe Audition and other DAW's and trying to pitch shift anything over a cent or two sounds terrible. Well, I can tell you these RT's sound awesome and nobody cares any more how much pitch shifting is going on, they just sound great period.
YMMV of course but I would say don't worry about it, just put them in your mix and see. If you have one that sounds glitchy post it here and we can discuss it but nobody has complained yet.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,449
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,449 |
I concur with Bob (jazzmammal).
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 134
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 134 |
Great input, Bob. Much appreciated.
Having used Elatique Pro v2 in other software, I appreciate it's power ... but still don't like it for more than a max of +/- 2 semitones.
I have also used Sony Acid Pro extensively, which also uses Zplane's Elastique Pro. Since there is only one file in one key for each loop, I make it a habit of checking the Acid properties to determine the original file and never use it beyond the +/- 2 semitone boundary. Yes, the pitch is correct ... but the sound and formant structure change.
Well, in the end it's hard to argue with a 30 day money back guarantee.
Thanks again to all of you.
Prado
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