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Howdy Folks, should you always normalize your tracks in BIAB and RB before mastering? I've tried mastering normalized tracks and not normalized tracks and the final output doesn't seem to have much difference (not that I can tell)--the volume and overall sound is more or less the same, after applying mastering compression. Is there a reason to normalize tracks before mixing/mastering? Or it doesn't matter?
Thanks, J
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I do but I'm old school were you wanted all your tracks on tape to be as hot as possible. Less noise that way.With digital it doesn't really matter.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
I do but I'm old school were you wanted all your tracks on tape to be as hot as possible. Less noise that way.With digital it doesn't really matter.
Hi John, Thanks for the info. Tons more to learn! J
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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When you normalize a track, it moves all the audio samples in the file up by the same amount, so that the highest sample value is at or near the maximum allowed (0 dB) (or the level you specify). If your peak sample is already near that, then there won't be any noticeable increase in volume. If the peak sample started at -6 dB, and you normalized to 0 dB, then you'd get a 6 dB gain in volume that would be noticeable.
If you were going to get a file professionally mastered, they want the peaks at around -3 dB, not at the maximum.
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So one thing to point out is that when you raise the whole track 6dB (as in Hog Time's example) you are also rasing the noise floor by that amount. That is something to listen for.
Whether you normalize everything is up to you, although once you do it means starting the mixing process all over again, because one track may have been increased 18dB and another only 2.
The time to get the good levels is during the recording process so the signal-to-noise ratio is good and the convertors are getting a good strong signal to work with.
For what it's worth I don't normalize every track. I rarely normalize any tracks, but will use the gain change plugin if a track needs it. A lot of realdrum tracks seem to need a little boost I've noticed.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Quote:
So one thing to point out is that when you raise the whole track 6dB (as in Hog Time's example) you are also rasing the noise floor by that amount. That is something to listen for.
Whether you normalize everything is up to you, although once you do it means starting the mixing process all over again, because one track may have been increased 18dB and another only 2.
The time to get the good levels is during the recording process so the signal-to-noise ratio is good and the convertors are getting a good strong signal to work with.
For what it's worth I don't normalize every track. I rarely normalize any tracks, but will use the gain change plugin if a track needs it. A lot of realdrum tracks seem to need a little boost I've noticed.
Agree. I just didn't say it quite right.I meant I usually normalizes all RTs & Rds.Self recorded tracks are done hot to start.This is all done before the mix.
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It also depends on the Real Track. Some of the newer electric guitar parts are already pretty compressed and "hot", so you won't hear a lot of difference.
One thing to bear in mind is that, if you are recording your own parts as well for use in RB, Sonar or whatever, you might be better off normalising in those programmes, or just using the faders the old fashioned way except with automation(!), as, if the RTs are already very hot, you might find that, if you have to use shed loads of gain on your own parts to match them, you will end up with a lot of noise as well. You can hide this within a distorted electric guitar part, but it is harder to remove from your own vocal, acoustic guitar or whatever. Generally, I wouldn't ever normalise in BAIB for that reason. I tend to normalise in Sonar and either use the fader or apply gain to the part in small increments till it sounds right. It takes about 5 minutes more, but you end up with better balanced parts. Just my view ...
Brian
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HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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I liked the article, the only comment I have is to partially disagree with their statement "Normalizing is indistinguishable from moving a volume knob or fader." Sliders and knobs in DAWs only reduce a track from it's peak volume downward. Setting all sliders all the way up only stops any reduction from taking place. Now if it were inside a different setup where the track could have an amplification source, I would pretty much agree. But then we wouldn't be discussing normalization. 
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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I would say never normalize individual tracks. I think the volumes of the tracks should be determined by the mix itself. Normalizing each individual track has to lead to a dull, muddy mix. If all tracks become louder, then the final master bus will require more compression to keep the whole thing from clipping (although, in reality, I have no idea what I am talking about).
Kevin
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Quote:
Sliders and knobs in DAWs only reduce a track from it's peak volume downward. Setting all sliders all the way up only stops any reduction from taking place.
In my DAW I can raise the level with faders (going over 0.0).
edit: oh sorry - I think I do know now how this was meant. But at least we have the gain control at the very beginning of each channel or one could apply a gain plug helping out if there's no such input gain control. I would strongly recommend never to maximize tracks nor to go over -12 to -6 peak on 16 bit tracks. It strongly depends on what plugins one uses on the tracks and on what level they operate best. -18 db is the equivalent of 0 on a VU meter in the analog world.
Here's some in-depth information by one of the most accomplished engineers in the field (Paul Frindle). I suggest starting to read at post #71 (in the upper right hand corner) and if you're interested I would strongly recommend reading all the posts made by Paul Frindle in this long thread. VERY insightful.
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-g...restored-3.html
BTW: ITB just means "In The Box" which means on a computer DAW as opposed to analogue OTB (Out Of The Box) gear. It took me a while to get this first.
Cheers, Daniel
"Plugins use the same reference at real equipment. Never try and drive them to the top of the Digital scale. Don't try and make your mix look like a master. You don't do that on an analog console, so why do we do it ITB?
"if your production environment dictates that you must provide limited, maximised and level-blasted material, just do it at the end"
Last edited by deltagolf; 03/10/11 03:40 AM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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That was fun reading,
Thanks
I'm going to try the X-ISM meter suggested, I have been using Parmeter for that purpose usually. I like how it keeps a record of the various ways to read levels for you.
Last edited by rharv; 03/10/11 09:06 AM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Hi rharv, Quote:
For what it's worth I don't normalize every track. I rarely normalize any tracks, but will use the gain change plugin if a track needs it. A lot of realdrum tracks seem to need a little boost I've noticed.
What gain change plugin do you use?
Col
iMac, 3.7 GHz 6-Core Intel Core i5, BIAB MAC2024 (802), Audient iD4
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I was referring to RB, lost track of which forum I was in, apparently.
edit-audio effects-gain change
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
I was referring to RB, lost track of which forum I was in, apparently.
edit-audio effects-gain change
Hi rharv,
That's what I assumed. So when you say you don't "normalize", do you just untick the "pre normalize" check box, that comes on automatically when you select "boost" from the edit-audio effects-gain change-boost dropdown?
Col
iMac, 3.7 GHz 6-Core Intel Core i5, BIAB MAC2024 (802), Audient iD4
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Yes, then set the decibels I want. Safe to leave the post limit checkbox.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Thanks for the advice rharv, much appreciated.
iMac, 3.7 GHz 6-Core Intel Core i5, BIAB MAC2024 (802), Audient iD4
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Quote:
I would say never normalize individual tracks. I think the volumes of the tracks should be determined by the mix itself. Normalizing each individual track has to lead to a dull, muddy mix. If all tracks become louder, then the final master bus will require more compression to keep the whole thing from clipping (although, in reality, I have no idea what I am talking about).
Kevin
+ 1
Trax
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Quote:
Quote:
I would say never normalize individual tracks. I think the volumes of the tracks should be determined by the mix itself. Normalizing each individual track has to lead to a dull, muddy mix. If all tracks become louder, then the final master bus will require more compression to keep the whole thing from clipping (although, in reality, I have no idea what I am talking about).
Kevin
+ 1
Trax
Another +1
When you are at the checkout line and they ask if you found everything say "Why, are you hiding stuff?"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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I can't tell you whether or not to do something like this for the simple reason that I cannot HEAR your tracks.
In other words, they maybe could stand a bit of Normalization, perhaps only one or two of them might, or perhaps the composite might benefit from one single Normalization pass, or then again perhaps Normalization is not the proper tool at all for that particular set of tracks and we may elect to use an instance of Compression, again maybe only on some of the separate tracks, also maybe a Mastering Pass with the Compressor as well.
It may seem to be the easier path, looking for blanket recipes or routines that will deliver the magic goodstuff every time, but quite honestly I do not know of anything like that which can compete with trained mind, ears, knowledge, experience, measurement tools and time. YMMV -- and so will your sonic results.
That said, if you are using Realtracks, the hard truth is that they need very little massaging to sound good, the pgmusic demos are done and posted "as-is" right out of BiaB.
--Mac
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