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Hi all. Hoping someone may have some advice for me on active speakers or reference monitors. No return when I search the forums on this which seems weird.
Anyhow, I use BIAB and other programs mostly to provide backing for tenor sax. So I need my sound system to be pretty beefy so I dont drown it out. I also do some mixing, (but not pro) so I want the sound to be reasonable quality and as flat as possible. Also of course I want to listen to general music on the same system. Also the speakers live on a busy desktop, so they cant be too huge. And there's a risk of the speakers getting knocked.
So I need a good few watts, good frequency response, not too big, and ideally a grill on the front. Oh yes and I'm skint.
Heres my observation on the following:
M-Audio AV40: compact, good price, have grill, bit low power at 30W RMS total, response bit low at bottom end.
M-Audio BX5a: bit too big, bit pricey, no grill, probably good for 70W RMS total + good response.
KRK Rokit 5: compact, big bucks, no grill, power and response good
Resolv A5: bit big, good price, grill on tweeter only, 75W RMS total, response bit iffy at low end
Alesis M1 Active 520/USB: bit big, no grill, bit pricey, 60W RMS total, response good
Behringer MS40: quite compact, cheap, grill on tweeter only,40W RMS??. response not quoted.
ESI Near 05: compact, bit pricey, no grill, 70W RMS??, response not quoted.
Anyone have any thoughts on this please? - I'd be grateful. TBH if I thought the AV40 would be loud enough I think I'd go with those - they seem to get good user reviews generally.
Cheers, Tommo
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Really all reference monitors will work, it is a matter of how clear and efficient you want them to be. The whole purpose of a reference monitor is to play back without adding "color" to the mix, so that you can hear as close as possible what is recorded.
The smaller ones will lack in Bass, the larger ones take up a lot of space. Once you refer, or listen to a lot of music in genres you like you can get a feel for what sounds right and mix your songs to that ideal, you will find out how to use them.
I personally would not buy under 5" and would prefer 8" woofs. I currently have M-Audio BX5As, and they do a great job. I am familiar with the sound of them.
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If all you need is backing for practicing and playing your Tenor, you may already have a good stereo hifi system, all you would need is the proper cable to connect computer audio or headphone out to the AUX input.
--Mac
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Quote:
If all you need is backing for practicing and playing your Tenor, you may already have a good stereo hifi system, all you would need is the proper cable to connect computer audio or headphone out to the AUX input.
--Mac
+1
Hit up the local Goodwill or equivalent in the UK for ultra cheap speakers and amps if you don't have this already.
Monitor speakers are really not designed for what you are doing - they are mainly used for mixing. Properly designed as near-field monitors, they will actually NOT work for what you are looking for. They are designed to be used in close proximity to the head.
Consider a good pair of headphones and a long extension cable as another viable alternative.
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While I still have my old stereo system, I find I rarely use it anymore, even when the music is cranked to play along with some high-energy Latin jazz. For one thing, it's rare I use the record player or even the CD player; instead most of my music is now on my computer in a whole different area of the house.
A studio monitor set smaller than maybe 6" probably will not give you enough power to practice with if you like to play loud. I have a set of 8" KRK monitors that do the job for me nicely for that. I don't mix with them, however; for mixing I prefer a set of 6" Mackie monitors in a small treated room.
I realize my post isn't helpful for you. Your needs are quite varied, and although I also play tenor sax, I use different rooms for different purposes. I would think 6" KRK might be the better choice from among the brands you listed. Note: I'm not familiar with the EMI brand. Good hunting!
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Hi and thanks for comments.
Yes I realise requirements for mixing and backing are a bit different - and I dont really need studio quality type reference monitors. I also realise that I can make use of conventional stereo system, and I do this sometimes downstairs.
But in my upstairs office/music room I dont have any amps, so I need something to run straight off the laptop - so its active speakers/reference monitors.
In fact as you say using headphones also works, but is aint quite the same - especially for anyone else in the house - they don't wanna hear my disemobied solo sax for hours!
I think I will go for "bang for buck" option. Rokit 8 sounds good - but we have a recession here in the UK!!
Anybody out there tried the Resolv A5?
Still would rather find something with grills. I think they do accesory grills for Rokits - I reckon I could just afford the grills...... but not the speakers.
Cheers Tommo
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Quote:
In fact as you say using headphones also works, but is aint quite the same - especially for anyone else in the house - they don't wanna hear my disemobied solo sax for hours!
Have you asked them this question? If sound travels through the house as well as you suspect, then they just MIGHT prefer to only a loud sax, instead of a loud sax AND the backing tracks.
As for grilles - the monitors belong on stands, at ear-level. If you aren't going to bother getting the monitors at proper listening level, quite honestly, you are wasting your money even bothering with monitors. The models you have listed are all near field monitors - intended to be used at ear-level. Putting them up at ear level should put them out of harms way. That's one of the reasons you don't see grilles on many systems intended for monitoring.
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Quote:
Have you asked them this question? If sound travels through the house as well as you suspect, then they just MIGHT prefer to only a loud sax, instead of a loud sax AND the backing tracks.
Well I guess thats true.
Quote:
As for grilles - the monitors belong on stands, at ear-level. If you aren't going to bother getting the monitors at proper listening level, quite honestly, you are wasting your money even bothering with monitors. The models you have listed are all near field monitors - intended to be used at ear-level. Putting them up at ear level should put them out of harms way. That's one of the reasons you don't see grilles on many systems intended for monitoring.
As far as near field goes - I'll be within a couple of metres or so, and could mount them higher for better sound and protection.
I guess part of the problem is I really would prefer an "all-in-one-box" (well two boxes obvoiusly) solution, ie active speakers of some sort.
But the options seem to be either:
1 Multimedia speakers - which are typically too feeble
2 Near field reference monitors - which are a bit over the top on sound quality, and often not enough W
3 Disco type speakers - 500W plus monsters and probably not great sound.
So I guess I'm just wondering if there's anything else, or if not which of these will be best for my mixed
uses.
Cheers Tom
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Quote:
1 Multimedia speakers - which are typically too feeble
2 Near field reference monitors - which are a bit over the top on sound quality, and often not enough W
3 Disco type speakers - 500W plus monsters and probably not great sound.
So I guess I'm just wondering if there's anything else, or if not which of these will be best for my mixed
uses.
Well, it's really all about the money. What you're asking is similar to the guy who says I want the performance of a Porsche but I can only afford a Civic so please, please people tell me what can I get for the price of a Civic that drives like a Porsche? Right. There's plenty of killer high powered active monitors from JBL, Genelec, Mackie etc but they're like $1,000 or more each. JBL has a 5.1 surround sound studio mixing system for only $3,500. That's why by far the best bang for the buck is to pick up an old but still decent stereo amp/receiver for $100 and a set of decent home stereo speakers with 8-10" woofers for another couple hundred. A used 300 watt Sony home theater system that sold for $500 new would work fine too. You don't have to plug in the sats. Something like that will rock the house and sound great for maybe $300 total for good name brand pieces. The thing about home speakers is they can put out plenty of sound using prerecorded material such as CD's or Biab tracks but if you try to plug in a guitar/keyboard or mic through a mixer and play live through them you'll blow out the tweeters in a heartbeat.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Quote:
Well, it's really all about the money. What you're asking is similar to the guy who says I want the performance of a Porsche but I can only afford a Civic so please, please people tell me what can I get for the price of a Civic that drives like a Porsche? Right.
Bob
Well you cant blame a guy for trying!
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You might take a look at some of the powered systems that are designed to support video viewing, some of those make awesome music systems as well. The Logitech powered speakers that feature more than 200W of power come to mind, there are others and you can go upwards to around the 500W or more level without a large expenditure these days with careful shopping. Also, the speaker boxes are rather small, don't let that fool you, the 5.1 systems, when playing back stereo audio, using the included subwoofer, can output some pretty stiff sound pressure levels. The subwoofer assures that the bass is right, tight and powerful.
--Mac
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http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/54...eluxe_130W.htmlSurprisingly powerful. I've never had them past half volume in a normal size room. In a small banquet hall we probably used them at about 60% or so. Also very clear; detail is amazing when used at conversation levels as nearfields. If you have a store near by to audition these it would be worth checking out. As Mac said the 2.1 and 5.1 systems are very well balanced these days. Blue Sky and M-Audio come to mind for these. If he says the Logitech are good; I believe him.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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I was inspired by this thread and finally decided to upgrade from my 30 year old Hifi amplifier and speakers. I haven't been using the amp and speakers very often because they don't do justice to RTs and the great piano sounds in my Yamaha stage piano. I have been monitoring mainly through some good Grado phones. I now have a pair of KRK Rokit6's and wow what a difference! I hadn't realized just how much my old setup was coloring the sound. My wife is going to have to get used to hearing me practising without the headphones from now on.
Tony
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This might be another option for you. I played a keyboard through one of these at GC the other day and the sound was awsome. Can also serve as a small powered sound system. http://www.guitarcenter.com/Roland-CM-30-Cube-Monitor-104017108-i1167688.gcTerry
TerryB
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Thanks for all the useful comment - sorry bit slow to respond.
5.1 probably a bit complex for my needs, but I wondered about a 2.1 system.
Somehow cant help but want my woofers separate - surely these are dealing with some of the mid-range that really wants to be split?
That said, I listened to my son's HK soundsticks - and the sound quality is really very good. Only 20W RMS for bass and 20 for treble, so not really enough - but gives the idea of what a 2.1 can do.
Thanks for the links - in fact I'm UK based so need to source here - but gave me some leads.
I'm looking at some M-Audio BX5a's which should do it. Will let you knw how I get on.
cheers Tommo
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Quote:
Somehow cant help but want my woofers separate - surely these are dealing with some of the mid-range that really wants to be split?
No.
Subwoofer deals with only the bass region.
Takes advantage of the fact that the human ear cannot detect directionality below a certain frequency.
Usually works a bit better actually, as the subwoofer is designed to handle the larger excursions required for the bass notes plus does not have to be trying to produce higher freqs such as the mids and also typically the subwoofer will have its own power amp. Many use dual voice coil technology such that the lows from both channels appear at the subwoofer cone.
--Mac
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Quote:
Quote:
Somehow cant help but want my woofers separate - surely these are dealing with some of the mid-range that really wants to be split?
No.
Subwoofer deals with only the bass region.
Takes advantage of the fact that the human ear cannot detect directionality below a certain frequency.
Usually works a bit better actually, as the subwoofer is designed to handle the larger excursions required for the bass notes plus does not have to be trying to produce higher freqs such as the mids and also typically the subwoofer will have its own power amp. Many use dual voice coil technology such that the lows from both channels appear at the subwoofer cone.
--Mac
There's a reason why subwoofers work, and why humans can only detect directionality below a certain frequency and it's due to the simple physics of the wavelength of these frequencies.
One of the biggest directional cues our hearing system has is what's called the inter-aural time or phase difference. If you look at the wavelength of a 200 Hz wave, it's quite long, 67.8 inches at sea level, to be exact. That's 67.8 inches for the whole sine-wave. The distance between your ear-drums is only about 6 inches. So at any one time for a 200 Hz wave, your ears are experiencing the difference in time of only about 1/10 of the entire wavelength; undetectable. This percentage in time or phase difference gets smaller as the frequency gets lower. For a 100 Hz wave, it's 1/20th of the length along the 136 inch wave. For a 50 Hz wave, the phase difference is only about 2% of the entire length of the wave.
These very long wavelengths are also the reason that you should test the low frequency response of your speakers in the room. With almost any home setup, you will set up standing waves in the room, which will unnaturally color your overall low frequency listening experience.
I still believe that your best solution for practicing sax with your backing tracks is with headphones. Trying to use nearfield monitors as a small PA system; which is what you are trying to do; is not the intended purpose for nearfield monitoring systems.
Most of those nearfield monitors will not have the proper dispersion for the midrange and tweeters to give you an optimum listening position for sax practicing (assuming you stand) as well as sitting (assuming this is what you do while mixing). If the speakers are actually designed well as nearfields, you'll notice a rather large difference in mid/high frequency response depending on your ear height relative to the tweeter height.
See if you can get a store to let you take a set of these home and try this out yourself. Set the monitors so that the tweeters are at ear height for sitting. Then alternatively stand up and sit down while a track is playing. You'll see what I mean.
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This is a great thread. Very helpful for me also. I am a sax player also (although I'm playing more alto than tenor at the moment) and have similar needs to yours. I had/have been thinking about monitors, but given the limited amount of mixing that I would do (really just related to recording myself) compared to the amount of time I use the speakers for playing backing tracks for practicing and for listening to music for pleasure and/or transcribing, I decided that I will probably just get a decent set of headphones (for tracking when recording and for mixing, since I am trying to get decent but not pro mixes) and continue to use my current speakers. So, what are the speakers? I have a set of these for the computer http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Klipsch+-+Pr...&st=Klipsch Computer Speakers&cp=1&lp=1 They aren't audiophile quality, but they get plenty loud, are small and sound pretty darn good for a set of computer speakers. I also have a stereo in the room where I practice with an old receiver, a pair of ADS floor standing speakers and a CD player/changer. It also works great for these purposes, but to be honest, I usually just use the computer and attached speakers. I may move the stereo out of the room to give myself more space. Good luck on the hunt. I'm interested to hear what you decide.
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