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PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2000
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Even "AI" programs that appear to be learning and thinking may turn out to be using far simpler techniques. An example was the ELIZA psychiatrist program, which some people took seriously ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA ) even after the author told them how (simply) it worked. The term "ELIZA effect" is now used to describe this phenomenon ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA_effect ).
Last edited by PeterGannon; 05/25/11 11:46 AM.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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How do you feel about the ELIZA effect, Peter?  R.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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I work in psychiatry and can say that the ELiza effect is definitely real. There is a concept of 'deference' which people tend to ascribe to people in authority especially doctors and psychotherapists. Its a way of absolving yourself of responsibility to be guided by some expert - emotionally, a bit like taking the world off your shoulders.
Over in the UK we have a homeopathic hospital. Its just like a real hospital and it has the same smells corridors. waiting rooms, uniforms everything like that. The only thing about it is that all the medication it uses is homeopathic and as every rational person knows is completely ineffective in terms of sceintific analysis (OK you can disagree but thats a scietific view)
The 'patients' of this hospital show the same amount of deference as would be ascribed to a genuine medical Dr and the 'Drs' of homeopathy have the same body language and forms of intervention as conventional Drs. If there is a beneficial effect its (IMO) a form of placebo effect.
Working thirty years in the profession running wards in hospitals you get SOME Drs whose decisions could be potentially disastorous or even lethal to patients, that are kept in line by the nurses that work for them. There knowledsge is poor to non existant, to the extent that you might even suspect that their qualifications are not genuine, but, and this is my point, they get the same deference and respect from the patient because the patient gives this trust as an article of faith rather that because it is verified. The patient leaves the verification to other parties.
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
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Quote:
because the patient gives this trust as an article of faith
ahhh, faith
moves mountains 
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Hi Rharv, have to correct you there faith doews bnot move mountains, sceince and oeffort can but faith has never moved a mountain. It funny that there are no new legs grown at Lourdes - God cant seem to deliver here..
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
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Zero, Maybe you should have a little faith in spell check? 
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Zero,
You might just change your mind when confronted with a mountain that you can't get through, over or around.
Don S.
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Quote:
Hi Rharv, have to correct you there faith doews bnot move mountains, sceince and oeffort can but faith has never moved a mountain. It funny that there are no new legs grown at Lourdes - God cant seem to deliver here..
Read the quote from the poster I was responding to. Faith does have power. Faith can cause effect. Physically moving a mountain is best done with a few of of these -
but the power of faith is under estimated often.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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And so the match is lit.
I have been of the opinion that 'opium of the people' is accurate.
However I have been in need of opiates. If fact I still am in need of those.
So whatever your position it's ok with me.
Politics and Religion should be avoided at all cost in this venue.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Well, that quote from a science fiction story does nothing more than highlight the natural but normal fear that if and when a machine can think for itself, it automatically becomes dangerous.
If AI is ever going to be possible in a true sense, then it won't be allowed to be true AI as it will have to be programmed to always look out for the good of all creatures. To install that program must take away some aspect of thinking for itself. It can't be allowed to think for itself if that leads to a possibility of it killing folk.
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Apprentice
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Yeah interesting question. How would Biab compare to Dr T's KCS Level ii software would that be considered Ai or an expert system? What is the difference? None of those parameters were musically named. Rather they were physics based. What an interesting time. Trying to learn about Music without using any of the Music Language. I love some of that 80's software Yes I do. It was principal based instead of harmony
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My company markets and sells a conversational A.I. platform for a variety of applications, so this is a fascinating topic for me.
Over the decades, I've noticed an interesting trend: an algorithm or system that displays intelligent properties is often called "A.I." until it reaches the threshold of practicality. Then, it's often re-branded as something more narrow, my guess is to avoid the "A.I." stigma.
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