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RealBand
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Joined: Jan 2007
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(This is mainly for PGMusic personnel)
I have noticed quite a bit of confusion in a couple of threads lately about accessing the higher banks on the SD2.
So I looked into it, and noticed that NONE of the "patches.ini" files I had in the C:/Realband folder (I had several, from different times and places) contained ANY of the "Presets Bank 2" (MSB 2).
So I downloaded the PGMusic zip file, with the Ketron patch files, and lo and behold, the .ini file for Realband and PT were missing the bank two numbers and names. The BIAB .pat file was fine, and works fine.
So, I loaded the .ini file in Notebook, and added the 128 numbers and names (Like: "1=Grand Piano"). This was laborious. If you want to use this patches.ini file, I would be happy to upload it to the PG site, just tell me where to send it as an attachment.
Brad
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RealBand
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Journeyman
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<Bump> I am sure there must be SOME other folks who are having this problem with the upper banks. 
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RealBand
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Joined: Dec 2000
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Brallan,
I've got a Ketron and I would love to have your patch file. If you don't have a place to post it, I would be happy to post it on the web and provide a link to it in the forum. Just let me know. you can send it to me at:
sus4chord at yahoo dot com
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2025/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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RealBand
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
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Many thanks, John.... file is on its way.
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RealBand
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7,415
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2002
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Thank you Brad! Please email that to support@pgmusic.com as an attachment, and we'll add it to our site.
Andrew
PG Music Inc.
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RealBand
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I know Andrew will post it to the PGMusic site, but for now, here is the file that Brad put together. I'm sure it will benefit those who use the Ketron SD2 with RealBand. Ketron SD2 Patch Bank #2
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2025/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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RealBand
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Andrew I have the same issue with my Roland Sonic Cell. The pat file that's posted does not include the "Rhythm" bank. That's the bank with all the other drum kits. I have access to all of the SC instrument patches but I'm stuck with just the GM drum kits. I have a new Athlon Phenom Win 7 64 bit PC and decided to really get into my Sonic Cell before I install all my softsynths and I've been going crazy trying to figure out where's the drum kits. I finally opened the file in Notepad and they're not there. I spoke to Rob at Support yesterday and he was trying to email you and also to open the file on his computer but kept getting syntax errors. His suggestion for me was to do the same thing, manually add the Rhythm bank to the end of the existing pat file because Real Band doesn't use a separate dk file. On the SC Yahoo groups forum there is a separate Rhythm bank .ins file. I'm wondering if I download that would RB convert it to a pat file, then I take that file and just append it to the other pat file? What do you think is the best way to do this?
Will those drum kit patches then show up just like all the other patches and I can pick one for the drum track because I always thought midi drum kits were somehow handled differently from regular instrument patches. The fact that the Rhythm bank .ins is a separate file seems to support this idea. How are the non GM drum kits accessed on the Ketron?
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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RealBand
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Joined: May 2002
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PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
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Thanks. The sd2 file on our site has been updated.
Hello Bob,
Perhaps you could send the ins file you found that has the drum kits, and we'll take a look at it...
Andrew
PG Music Inc.
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RealBand
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Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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RealBand
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 84
Enthusiast
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Enthusiast
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Sorry for the dumb question, but when I install the new patch file, what will I see that is different when I run BIAB or RB?
John
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RealBand
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In the patch selection window of RB you'll see the patches from the other banks in a seperate box beside the selected program number. Example, for program 1 (piano in GM bank) the other box may list 'stereo piano, honky tonk 2,' etc Whatever the patch names are for that program number in the other banks. Depending on how your synth is set up those patches may be relevant to the current patch or they may not. They do make assigning the patch easier though once you find the one you want. No messing with MSB LSB numbers. Sometimes I wish I could have a way to 'view all' and see every available patch, but that would be a very long list for many people(1600 patches approximately in my main synth). So I'm not sure if it would help or confuse. 
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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RealBand
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Joined: Dec 2007
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Enthusiast
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Thanks rharv. So it looks like before, but with a few more choices. I don't see the new choices, but I'm probably not looking hard enough.
And for BIAB, the choices are in a single list, not the dual list like RB, I presume.
John
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RealBand
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Joined: May 2002
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PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
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Hi,
You could just add in the drum kits (rhythm sets). The main part of that Rhythm Sets .ins file is dealing with the individual drum sounds. (On the drum channel, each MIDI note number is a different drum sound) Band-in-a-Box wouldn't use that part of the file.
I looked in the SonicCell manual, and I don't think that you need to specify a bank for the drum kits. So we would just add this:
[SonicCell Preset Rhythm Sets]
1=SonicCellKit
2=WD Std Kit
3=LD Std Kit
4=TY Std Kit
5=StandardKit1
6=StandardKit2
7=StandardKit3
8=Rock Kit 1
9=Rock Kit 2
10Brush Jz Kit
11=Orch Kit
12=909 808 Kit
13=Limiter Kit
14=HipHop Kit 1
15=R&B Kit
16=HiFi R&B Kit
17=Machine Kit1
18=Kit-Euro:POP
19=House Kit
20=Nu Technica
21=Machine Kit2
22=ArtificalKit
23=Noise Kit
24=Kick Menu
25=Snare Menu
26=Snr/Rim Menu
27=HiHat Menu
28=Tom Menu
29=Clp&Cym&Hit
30=FX/SFX Menu
31=Percussion
32=Scrh&Voi&Wld
There's also a list of GM2 drum kits in the manual. It's possible you have to use bank (MSB) 121 to access those, not sure...
[SonicCell GM2 Rhythm Sets]
0.121.0=GM2 STANDARD
8.121.0=GM2 ROOM
16.121.0=GM2 POWER
24.121.0=GM2 ELECTRIC
25.121.0=GM2 ANALOG
32.121.0=GM2 JAZZ
40.121.0=GM2 BRUSH
48.121.0=GM2 ORCHSTRA
56.121.0=GM2 SFX
Maybe you could test that out and see if it works?
Andrew
PG Music Inc.
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RealBand
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,323
Expert
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Expert
Joined: May 2003
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Andrew,
I just downloaded from your site the file Ketron SD2.zip. here are my comments about inconsistencies I discovered in the Ketron SD2.PAT file.
1 : 1.0.0 is Rock Piano and not Rock Grand; patches.ini file is OK with Rock Piano patch name.
2 : 22.1.0 is Francaise and not Diatonic; patches.ini file is OK with Francaise patch name.
3 : 43.2.0 is 12Strings and not Strings; patches.ini file is OK with 12Strings patch name.
Do you confirm or is there something I miss ?
Reach for excellence
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RealBand
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Thanks for researching this Andrew, I will add those kits and report back. The GM kits already show up by choosing GM Drums in the Patch Names combo box window.
Obviously RB is different from Biab however in Biab, the SC patch names are displayed by instrument category which is much better than the system (or lack of one) used by RB. Biab doesn't have the "Variations" window that RB has. Biab simply displays the list according to the .pat file while RB shows variations by patch number. I'm sure you know this already Andrew but for anybody else reading this, RB first shows the GM default bank, you then have to uncheck the display patch number box, then the variations show in the box to the right. The patch number highlighted in that box corresponds to the same patch number displayed in the left window but in a different bank. The problem is there's no way to know which bank that is without scrolling to the top of the list, see the first patch, open the SC book and find the bank that starts with that patch and then figure out if that's the bank that has all the horns or whatever it is you're lookling for. I'm starting to get familiar with the banks, I'll probably have them memorized eventually but man, the RB system is very clumsy and hard to work with. Is there any way to have RB simply display the patch list by instrument categories like Biab does? Biab is so easy, if I want to change the GM sax melody instrument to any of the multitude of SC sax's they're all grouped together in the patch list under "Woodwinds". Not so in RB.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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RealBand
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Wishlist this (put it in the Wishlist Forum)
I think many will like this idea. That's why I mentioned in my response that "Depending on how your synth is set up those patches may be relevant to the current patch or they may not."
It can be made easier, I'm just happy to have them. Sending the old school MSB and LSB for each sound was tedious.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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RealBand
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Quote:
It can be made easier, I'm just happy to have them. Sending the old school MSB and LSB for each sound was tedious.
Yeah, we always want more don't we? I'll see what Andrew says, if he says the Wishlist I'll flip it over there.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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RealBand
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John-Luke keep in mind these .pat files are created by users, PG posts them as a courtesy to all of us who use hardware synths. You're perfectly free to open up Notepad and change those names to whatever you want.
I know that Biab will take a Cakewalk .ins file and convert it but I have no idea if that's all there is to it or if somebody still has to go in and tweak it before it works properly. I suspect it still needs work before it's ready for prime time.
PG provides users with the tools for this but they're not doing all the work involved in creating .pat files for dozens of synths over the last 20 years. That's why Andrew asked me to add those drum kits. I'll do that when I get time this week, test it out and if it works I'll forward that file back to them and they will post it.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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RealBand
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Expert
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Does anybody know why there are two instances of Lip Flute patch, PC=75 - CC00=1 and PC=75 - CC00=10 ?
Reach for excellence
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RealBand
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It's likely the bank select for which bank the patch is in. Maybe one is a variation of the other (?)
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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