PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Off-Topic Recording Trumpet

Hello;

I’ve been recording my trumpet using a Shure 58 into an UA-1G into PowerTracks. I am new to this. I’ve read that 57's and 58's are great for gigs but not great as recording mics.

As a result, I don’t know if I should be buying another mic (your recommendations would be appreciated) to improve the sound quality of my recordings. I don’t know if I would need to replace the UA-1G as well.

I understand that there are a lot of things that can be done during the mixing stage that can improve the sound of a performance but I’m not there yet.

I am wondering if you would be willing to listen to a sound bite and let me know if I am on the right track with the sound that I am getting. Trumpet is live. The rest is real tracks.

I would appreciate any advice.

http://www.twobucksdanceband.com/thats_all_snippet.mp3

Thanks

SM 57 and SM 58 have been on a ton of hit records in featured spots, including horns.

I think you're doing fine so far. Nice tone.

The Shure mics shound great with your horn.

Warm tone and good intonation. Nice sound.

To improve on this, you would probably have to spend $600 to $1,100 on a ribbon mic, and most of those require a more expensive preamp that has more gain than usual.

The 57 and 58 have the same element; the ball on the 58 gives it a slightly different response that horn players and vocalists like.

I think you're doing fine.

Sounds great . . . I would not change a thang!

Welcome aboard!

You would be hard pressed to improve on the sound your are already getting by replacing the mic.

The Shure '57 or '58 as you have is an *excellent* choice for recording the Trumpet.

Problems arise when Internet newcomers to the art and science of recording begin to pontificate about stuff like this. Most start recommending large diaphragm condenser mics and phantom power, etc. etc.

But the Trumpet has such a high dynamic range ability that it is exceptionally easy for we TruMpet players to overdrive such a microphone as the large diaphragm condenser, plus they are typically too sensitive and pick up more of the room, sometning that is typically not that desirable in home recording environments.

Hell, I can *destroy* a large diaphragm with my horn if I have a mind to do so, and likely so can you from the sound of your embouchure, etc. And don't even *think* of what either of us could do to a Ribbon Mic... - There'd be little pieces of tinfoil confetti floatin' around the studio when we got done *grin*. A Trumpet in the right hands can generate up to 7 Watts of RMS Audio Power at the bell. Stupid kids have actually managed to permanently damage other kids hearing with trumpets in school bands, never a funny trick to blow a trumpet or trombone into someone else's ear. Or into their expensive and sensitive ribbon or condenser mic, either. We play the instrument of the battlefield, man.

The Cardioid Dynamic Mic is still my mic of choice for Trumpet (and Trombone) sections.

I have quite often specified those Shure mics for pro recording sessions of both sections and soloists.

In my opinion, the only step up from your Shure that would really mean something also has that pesky "Law of Diminishing Returns" riding along with it, meaning that the amount of money spent that is over and above the cost of the Shure is far more than the amount of improvement gained in sound quality.

And if you must know, that mic is still Cardioid Electrodynamic design, same as your Shure, it is the infamous Electro Voice RE-20. Great trumpet mic when used in a great acoustic environment with an even greater mic preamp.

But you really don't NEED to spend that kind of money on a new mic for your intended purpose, what you've presented here sounds very good indeed to this old recording engineer and trumpet player's ears, man.

"If it works, don't FIX it."

One thing I've learned to do over the years is to *NEVER* discuss the technical aspects of my recordings when presenting them. I just put 'em out there and sit back and watch the listeners. And remain mum.

That is because I have found out empirically that if I go ahead and volunteer any technical info at all, it invites the kind of situation which prompted your question.

So I never maention anything at all before or after the presentation of the recording.

If asked a specific wuestion such as "what mic did you use for the ________?" -- I have learned to respond with a question: "Well, what Mic do you *think* I used?"

As Duke Ellington once pointed out, "If it sounds good, it IS good!"

And your recordeing sounds GOOD, man.


--MAC

Thanks for the input everyone. I appreciate the kinds words coming from other musicians. I'll keep trying.

It sounded good. And, disregard what I said about ribbon mics. I'm going to tell all the studios that have used them on me that they were wrong.

I surely didn't hear anything wrong with that recording. Sounds great...post some more!

Jally, Just adding my comments......same as the others.....lovely warm sound! As Mac says.."Don't change!" I've recorded Trumpeters several times in my little home studio ......with studio condenser mics AND SM58s........the horn guys always liked the SM58 sound better! You have horn players here, who really know their stuff....if they say .....it's a good sound...then it is! Regards, Joe G.

Jally, that recording and mix that you posted sounds better than a good 99% of what shows up on home recorded forums that I haunt.

I would say that with the ribbon mic that I have; a Cascade Fat Head - one of the less expensive ribbons on the market - you would run into the issue that Matt Finley describes - you likely wouldn't have enough gain in the UA-1G to get a nice clean signal.

It has been a somewhat disappointing mic in that regard. So you would be looking at a system solution that not only includes a ribbon mic of lower noise floor, but also a pre-amp and for that matter, likely spending some major coin on treating your recording space.

What you are doing now is working VERY well, and you have a good ear for mixing.

Record away. Sell some music (if that's your goal).

-Scott

Mac, thanks for the clarification. My ribbon mic at home is pretty much 'set and forget' so it can be done. I worked up to the optimum input level very slowly and carefully, and adjust only the preamp output for specific instruments. In the studios, they regularly bring out an old 1950s RCA ribbon mic for me, and we love it.

Scott, good call. That Fat Head mic is well-known on the trumpet forums as the least expensive ribbon mic to get a 'warm' sound. Next up in price is a Beyerdynamic at around $700, then the two Royers at over $1100. All require lots of gain in the preamp.

Again, I will say thanks for the feedback.

And after reading your postings I am hoping (REALLY hoping) to have the same dumb luck the next time I try to record as I had the last time.

Cheers.