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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 13
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 13 |
I'm frustrated that when I enter chords in a minor key some of the chords use notes that fit the major scale and I can't seem to change that. For example; in the key of Dm the 5 chord, A or A7 (A7b9, etc.) the guitar will add a 6th which is the major 3rd of D, and is outside the minor scale. Is there a way to change that? If not, that needs to be remedied in future versions.
thanks
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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You control that via 'embellishment'. The use of a minor 6th is common practice.
In fact if you were to try that a different way you throw in a Bbm7b5 which will give you a similar Dm6 sound. This adds colour to the arrangement, however if you do not want the software to add embellishments you can turn them off.
Judicial use of this feature can greatly enhance the sound, and is more easily controlled in the midi styles.
Many of the Jazz Realtracks were laid down by Oliver Gannon, you might want to google him and thus gain some understanding of where the software is going. My most common usage of the software at present is to use Oliver Gannon, Neil Swainson, and Terry Clark as the rest of my quartet, with Miles Black popping in and out if I grab a horn for a verse.
My band thus shreds a lot like the real thing, but I don't let the solo too much, unless I need a beer.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
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Quote:
I'm frustrated that when I enter chords in a minor key some of the chords use notes that fit the major scale and I can't seem to change that. For example; in the key of Dm the 5 chord, A or A7 (A7b9, etc.) the guitar will add a 6th which is the major 3rd of D, and is outside the minor scale. Is there a way to change that? If not, that needs to be remedied in future versions.
thanks
no joke, this is an old problem, Band in a Box is a great program but all these dumb notes that it throws in, have made many of my ideas useless. This is the single thing I disllike about it.
if you type A it should only be the notes of the basic triad, it should not be an altered chord or any of that, unless specified.
I did post a topic in the Wishlist and Peter asked us to name the styles where BB would throw in all these wrong notes (and wrong they are, although the program thinks otherwise)
it would be better to create menus even to specify if passing notes should be used, if any, etc etc
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 92
Enthusiast
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 92 |
Totally agree with previous post - the unwanted extra 'dumb notes' that get thrown in totally ruin so many of my tracks - and this has gotten much worse with RT... most of the RT jazz styles are SO busy and full of 'extras' that my vocalist complained that she kept losing her place - I even had a hard time following where the track was due to the guitar over-playing/embellishing....so we ended up going back to mostly Midi stuff, as crappy as it is, at least 'they' play simply and consistently....
I've posted a similar thread before, only to get told that THAT is how REAL jazz players play live on a gig.... needless to say, they would never be in a band of mine... if you use all RT on a particular song, it's as if you have 4 musicians soloing at the same time throughout the entire tune.... WHY did BIAB choose to do it this way?
Isn't BIAB supposed to be a BACKING track ?? BIAB folks seem to have lost sight of the basics here....
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2003
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The software is written to satisfy 'most' users. You may fall outside of this parameter.
Even if you wouldn't have Oliver Gannon in your band, trust me, he had some input into this matter.
However you can go in and edit several parameters that give you control over the 'embellishment' thing. The first is to turn that off. The second is to read the tutorial, find the way to edit the style and set the parameter to zero.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
it would be better to create menus even to specify if passing notes should be used, if any, etc etc
It's there. It's called "The Stylemaker". Biab is style based, all this stuff is controlled by the style and you can write a style to do whatever you want with the chords. You usually don't have to start from scratch though. Use a style that's close to what you want and modify it and save it by changing the name. You can create a whole folder of your modified styles and only use those. This includes the RT's. Write a simple style and you get simple RT's. Mac explained several years ago how he created a style for Chameleon. He was able to create a great cover version of that tune. Of course the style was only good for that one song but that's an example of what can be done.
Someone complained about the jazz RT's overplaying. Sure, I hear that too sometimes and it's up to us to mix the tracks properly. Don't think the RT styles are the be all, end all. They are merely demos of how a particular group of RT's sound together. You can right click the instrument and use any RT you want completely independent of the style. Example, it could be a jazz waltz RT style and you click on the guitar instrument and change the RT to a 4/4 grunge heavy metal guitar solo. It will probably sound like crap but you can do it. More to a real world scenario, if the jazz guitar RT comping is too busy, maybe one of the Dire guitar comps would fit or a basic country one might work. Changing RT's like that doesn't involve the Stylemaker. The Stylemaker is strictly midi. You can put any RT you want on any track at any time.
People buy the program, look at the list of styles and think that's all they have to work with. Not so. Biab is a toolbox and PG gives you all the tools you need to do pretty much anything you want to do. If you don't want to learn the Stylemaker, there's third party vendors like Norton Music. Notes has created thousands of pretty good sounding styles over the years.
Bob
Last edited by jazzmammal; 06/09/11 11:15 AM.
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 897
Expert
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Expert
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With that comment about the vocalist that got confused with the background "spitting out" all sorts of confusing "backing"...I recall how another program, that I truely love
the iRealBook, that offers you "simplified", however disconcerting trio backing...to even those who have sung jazz for years, mostly utilizing extended or "drop chords"...
Well, altho my ear and memory are pretty good at picking up on a tune immediately, even with an extra sexy (dissonant??) intro by the accompanyist (even me)...
when I go into a iRealBook tune (an overwhelming number of the "standards" in the electronic fake book are uptempo) and so...
With just a two-bar countdown before "this backup trio" takes off into the number, more than once it's taken me a "run through" or at least a few bars into the tune before I
pick up on the actual "pro" chords that suddenly appear "at tempo"!
It could be a tune I'm happy to have done many times before...but some of these melody lines can be hidden pretty good by those chords.
It isn't surprising to me that many vocalist can get tripped up by the jazzy chord stuff!
Some time, even slowing the tempo of the "cooked-up" changes, doesn't help all that much.
That's why I have such great respect for many of females, Like Jane Monheit, Shirly Horn, and scores of other jazz singers, these gals have a natural (or studied.. even), ear... for "taking chords in" with what seems as an uncanny "ease"!!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 196
Apprentice
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Apprentice
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Posts: 196 |
I sometimes have strange sounding realtrack 7th chords but change these to 9th chords and they sound OK. I have no idea why this works.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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FrankK, that is a technique I've passed along here every so often, having discovered it in BIAB by accident. The more detail you specify in the chord, the fewer choices BIAB has to guess what you might want.
If you just say "D", you could get a major seven or even a minor seven or a sixth added in, or a second, or a ninth, or a 6/9 or a Major 9 or ... depending on the style and somewhat on the "jazz up the chords" setting.
If you write a 9th chord, like "D9", it implies the dominant/minor seventh is present and especially prevents the occurrence of a sharp nine or flat nine. If you write a "D7", you could get those alterations, and that may be what you are hearing and objecting to.
Now, having said that, although I might write D9 in a BIAB song, I would generally put D7 in a chart, and let the piano and guitar decide.
For another example, if you write D7alt, you could get a flat five, a sharp five, a flat nine and/or a sharp nine. Jazz players mix these on the fly. If you want a particular voicing, especially to match a melody, you should write it (for example, D7#9).
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Would you specify what style(s) you're using? I have the "jazz the chords up" checked on, but have never heard a major third played on any of my minor chords. Later, Ray
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Would you specify what style(s) you're using? I have the "jazz the chords up" checked on, but have never heard a major third played on any of my minor chords. Later, Ray
+1 to that.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,976
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
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lrd,
Yes, it would be nice if BB REalTracks didn't ever play a natural 6 on the V7 chord in minor keys, and we do plan on improving that in the future.
In the meantime....
You can get around that issue by typing A7b9 for the chord, instead of A7. (in other cases, where you're not wanting b9 or b13, you can type A9). All these embellishments only happen with "plain 7 th chords", so you can get around them by typing something more specific in cases where there is a clash with the melody for example.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
All these embellishments only happen with "plain 7 th chords"...
Ah, and therein is the reason. Thanks, Peter.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 303
Journeyman
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Journeyman
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Quote:
The software is written to satisfy 'most' users. You may fall outside of this parameter.
Even if you wouldn't have Oliver Gannon in your band, trust me, he had some input into this matter.
However you can go in and edit several parameters that give you control over the 'embellishment' thing. The first is to turn that off. The second is to read the tutorial, find the way to edit the style and set the parameter to zero.
who's 'most users' ? WE are 'most users'. I don't know what other users you are referring to. Maybe they are more special than some others?
Falling outside of that parameter...you mean the one where users expects a chord progression to play back exactly as specified? That is, about 95 per cent of us? Oh yes, THAT parameter 
The problem with Band in a Box is that it is WAY too oriented toward jazz. All the extensions and altered notes can only work if you, as a musician, know EXACTLY what you are doing.....and you can't really let a SOFTWARE decide that for you. Or at least, there should be more options, because the ones that are there, don't really work.
Band in a box should only aid creativity, but to me the mistake is trying to make it do all the work for you, which will never work.
As for editing styles....is there at least a good tutorial video about that? if not ,I'll forget about it, life is too short to figure out every single thing on a computer.
This is just constructive criticism, I don't mean putting down the software, I have used it for years, and I will continue to, but sadly often I had to work really hard to make it do things that are quite basic, really. It should not be like that. It should not require all that hard work, i.e. scanning through dozens of RT and styles to find some that will play back chords as I intend to.
In my opinion, PG Music should really get rid of this 'more is better' philosophy. I doubt that mayhem is what most people want, they want to write music with the least amount of headache.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 303
Journeyman
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Journeyman
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Quote:
FrankK, that is a technique I've passed along here every so often, having discovered it in BIAB by accident. The more detail you specify in the chord, the fewer choices BIAB has to guess what you might want.
If you just say "D", you could get a major seven or even a minor seven or a sixth added in, or a second, or a ninth, or a 6/9 or a Major 9 or ... depending on the style and somewhat on the "jazz up the chords" setting.
so how do I avoid a major triad playing back as a LYDIAN triad, as it has happened many times? You tell me. How do I avoid having BB mixing chords from the NATURAL minor and MELODIC minor? That happened quite a few times ,too.
As for the stylemaker, as I said before, I am all for learning, but the least I could expect is PG to make a video tutorial about that, in order to minimize all these problems. But I want to see that in a video. I don't think is too much to ask?
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 303
Journeyman
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Journeyman
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by the way, I really don't understand this 'being as specific as possible' philosophy....if you type A means A major, i.e. A,C sharp and E, nothing more and nothing less. A7 means the above triad plus a minor seventh from the root. Nothing more should be specified.
But if I am in the key of A major, and I type E7, and BB plays back E7b9, and I don't want that because at the same time a passing note F sharp is playing in the melody that I recorded, then it's certainly not my fault that F and F sharp are clashing.
E7b9 in that key would be a so-called 'borrowed chord'. BB should even have menus for that, or else just play back E7. If the user wants a b9 top, he can play it in the melody notes, if not, it's ok too.
I think is really all much simpler. All that is needed is to program the styles and RT with the least amount possible of passing tones, alterations and extensions. Keep it simple, don't overcrowd the passages. If I want a Lydian fourth on a maj7 chord, I'll play it in the melody, or not. Why complicating things ? The computer already takes a valuable amount of time from our lives. Simpler is better!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2011
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I love the embellishment that biab does , it makes me play scales I never did before . Plus I always play to the bands chord decision rather than make a melody and then try to have biab play to it. I still have the same simplified pattern issues as you ,but have used a semi-workaround by having an offending instrument hold that chord and let the rest play normally . Not perfect but helps hold the band to a little less over-playing.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
All that is needed is to program the styles...
Isn't this what I told you to do? Dude, you're rambling on and on about all this irrelevant crap but you're not answering the basic questions like this one from Ray:
Quote:
Would you specify what style(s) you're using? I have the "jazz the chords up" checked on, but have never heard a major third played on any of my minor chords. Later, Ray
Answer the question and be specific like you used this style, entered these chords and this is what happened on the 'B" section or whatever so we can try to duplicate it or maybe modify it so it plays what you want.
You said this:
Quote:
but to me the mistake is trying to make it do all the work for you, which will never work.
Buddy, I hate to break the news to you but this is what Biab is designed to do. Read the blurbs on the PG Music home page. All these workarounds are for people like you who don't want that. This is exactly what most people want, to enter some chords and have the program do all the work for them. Don't you get it?
You want precision, use Real Band, not Biab. RB is a sequencer with some Biab functions. You can write stuff exactly how you want it there.
And, learn the Stylemaker. You need someone to hold your hand or what? It's all there in the manual and help files. Poor baby, no video tutorial? R...T...F...M.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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There is a video tutorial on how to make styles and thus modify them.
I wanted a band in a box.
Not a baton and composer.
I got what I wanted.
90 percent of the stuff I listen to was done without sheet music, just jazz. My thing. I'm happy.
But I'll admit, I went to see Jazz at the Lincoln centre orchestra and they all had music.. Even the drummer who never looked at anything but his sheets off to his left, my neck hurt for him.
The odd note clashes, hey it happens in live jazz all the time, you resolve and keep goin'. The last chord is always tasty. Because of resolve. LOL. Someone does it.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Like you said this is the way the program is designed: 1)..an intelligent automatic accompaniment program for your multimedia computer. ..... go from “nothing” to “something” in a very short period of time. 2)... automatically generating a complete professional-quality arrangement of piano, bass, drums, guitar, and strings or horns in a wide variety of popular styles plus 3) ...a powerful and creative music composition tool for exploring and developing musical ideas with near-instantaneous feedback. To fully appreciate this program you have to understand what it does, how it does it and (maybe most important of all) what it does not do. 
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Last Chance! The Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® Special Ends Today (May 31, 2026) at 11:59pm PDT!
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With Band-in-a-Box® 2026, we've released 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 468-488) in a variety of genres—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Funk & World (Sets 468-475):
Our new jazz, funk & blues RealTracks include a groovin’ collection of RealTracks and RealDrums! These include more requested “soul jazz” RealTracks featuring artists Neil Swainson (bass), Charles Treadway (organ), Brent Mason (guitar), and Wes Little (drums). There are new “smooth jazz” styles (4), which include a RealTracks first: muted trumpet, as well as slick new smooth jazz brushes options for drums. Blues lovers will be thrilled—there are more “classic acoustic blues” styles, including guitar (5), bass (4), and drums (10) with blues master Colin Linden, featuring understated and tasty background acoustic soloing, plus brushes drums and acoustic bass. There are also new electric blues RealTracks, including electric blues with PG favorite Johnny Hiland (3) and soulful electric slide guitar from Colin Linden (4). If you love funk & gospel, there are great new options this year, including gospel organ (3) from Charles Treadway, as well as new funk, tango, and rock ’n’ roll drums (3) and bass (1). And for big, bold arrangements, we have uptempo soul horns (4) featuring a three-part hip horn section with options for a full mix or stems of each individual horn — plus an accompanying rhythm section (4) of drums, bass, guitar, and electric piano!
Rock & Pop (Sets 476–482):
Our new rock & pop RealTracks bring a powerful mix of requested favorites, fresh genres, and modern chart-inspired styles! We have more of our popular “Producer Layered Acoustic Guitars (15)” featuring Band-in-a-Box favorite Brent Mason. We’ve continued our much-requested disco styles (10), and added new Celtic guitar (5) with a more basic, accessible approach than our previous Drop-D or DADGAD offerings. There are also highly requested yacht rock styles (17), inspired by the smooth, polished soft-rock sound of the late ’70s and early ’80s — laid-back grooves, silky electric pianos, warm textures, elegant harmonic movement, and pristine production aesthetics. Fans of heavier styles will love our new glam metal (13), capturing the flashy, high-energy sound of ’80s arena-ready guitar rock. We also have a set of rootsy modern-folk rock (18), with a warm, organic sound combining contemporary folk textures and driving acoustic strumming. And we’ve added lots of new modern pop styles (16) — the kinds of sounds you’re hearing on the radio today, featuring exciting new drums, synths, and cutting-edge RealTracks arrangements.
Country, & Americana (Sets 483–488):
Our new country & Americana RealTracks deliver a rich collection of acoustic, electric, and roots-inspired styles! We have new country pop (9) with legendary guitarist Brent Mason. There is also a potpourri (14) of bouzouki, guitars, banjo, and more, perfect for adding texture and character to contemporary acoustic arrangements. We’ve added funky country guitar (5) with PG favorite Brent Mason, along with classic pedal steel styles (5) featuring steel great Doug Jernigan. There are more country songwriter styles (8) that provide intimate, rootsy foundations for storytelling and modern Americana writing. Finally, we have “background soloing” acoustic guitar (12) with Brent Mason — simpler, but still very tasty acoustic lines designed to sit beautifully behind vocals or act as a subtle standalone solo part.
Check out all the 202 new RealTracks (in sets 468-488)!
And, if you are looking for more, the 2026 49-PAK (for $49) includes an impressive collection of 20 bonus RealTracks, featuring exciting and inspiring additions to add to your RealTracks library. You'll get new country-rhythm guitar styles from PG Music favorites Johnny Hiland and Brent Mason, along with modern-pop grooves that capture today’s radio-ready sound! There are also new indie-folk styles with guitar, bass, 6-string bass used as a high-chording instrument, acoustic guitar, and banjo. Plus, dedicated "cymbal fills" RealDrums provide an added layer that work very well with low-key folky styles with other percussion.
The 2026 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2026 49-PAK!
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
With your version 2026 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- iOS Android Band-in-a-Box® App
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
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