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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2011
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 13 |
I'm frustrated that when I enter chords in a minor key some of the chords use notes that fit the major scale and I can't seem to change that. For example; in the key of Dm the 5 chord, A or A7 (A7b9, etc.) the guitar will add a 6th which is the major 3rd of D, and is outside the minor scale. Is there a way to change that? If not, that needs to be remedied in future versions.
thanks
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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You control that via 'embellishment'. The use of a minor 6th is common practice.
In fact if you were to try that a different way you throw in a Bbm7b5 which will give you a similar Dm6 sound. This adds colour to the arrangement, however if you do not want the software to add embellishments you can turn them off.
Judicial use of this feature can greatly enhance the sound, and is more easily controlled in the midi styles.
Many of the Jazz Realtracks were laid down by Oliver Gannon, you might want to google him and thus gain some understanding of where the software is going. My most common usage of the software at present is to use Oliver Gannon, Neil Swainson, and Terry Clark as the rest of my quartet, with Miles Black popping in and out if I grab a horn for a verse.
My band thus shreds a lot like the real thing, but I don't let the solo too much, unless I need a beer.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
I'm frustrated that when I enter chords in a minor key some of the chords use notes that fit the major scale and I can't seem to change that. For example; in the key of Dm the 5 chord, A or A7 (A7b9, etc.) the guitar will add a 6th which is the major 3rd of D, and is outside the minor scale. Is there a way to change that? If not, that needs to be remedied in future versions.
thanks
no joke, this is an old problem, Band in a Box is a great program but all these dumb notes that it throws in, have made many of my ideas useless. This is the single thing I disllike about it.
if you type A it should only be the notes of the basic triad, it should not be an altered chord or any of that, unless specified.
I did post a topic in the Wishlist and Peter asked us to name the styles where BB would throw in all these wrong notes (and wrong they are, although the program thinks otherwise)
it would be better to create menus even to specify if passing notes should be used, if any, etc etc
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 92
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Posts: 92 |
Totally agree with previous post - the unwanted extra 'dumb notes' that get thrown in totally ruin so many of my tracks - and this has gotten much worse with RT... most of the RT jazz styles are SO busy and full of 'extras' that my vocalist complained that she kept losing her place - I even had a hard time following where the track was due to the guitar over-playing/embellishing....so we ended up going back to mostly Midi stuff, as crappy as it is, at least 'they' play simply and consistently....
I've posted a similar thread before, only to get told that THAT is how REAL jazz players play live on a gig.... needless to say, they would never be in a band of mine... if you use all RT on a particular song, it's as if you have 4 musicians soloing at the same time throughout the entire tune.... WHY did BIAB choose to do it this way?
Isn't BIAB supposed to be a BACKING track ?? BIAB folks seem to have lost sight of the basics here....
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2003
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The software is written to satisfy 'most' users. You may fall outside of this parameter.
Even if you wouldn't have Oliver Gannon in your band, trust me, he had some input into this matter.
However you can go in and edit several parameters that give you control over the 'embellishment' thing. The first is to turn that off. The second is to read the tutorial, find the way to edit the style and set the parameter to zero.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
it would be better to create menus even to specify if passing notes should be used, if any, etc etc
It's there. It's called "The Stylemaker". Biab is style based, all this stuff is controlled by the style and you can write a style to do whatever you want with the chords. You usually don't have to start from scratch though. Use a style that's close to what you want and modify it and save it by changing the name. You can create a whole folder of your modified styles and only use those. This includes the RT's. Write a simple style and you get simple RT's. Mac explained several years ago how he created a style for Chameleon. He was able to create a great cover version of that tune. Of course the style was only good for that one song but that's an example of what can be done.
Someone complained about the jazz RT's overplaying. Sure, I hear that too sometimes and it's up to us to mix the tracks properly. Don't think the RT styles are the be all, end all. They are merely demos of how a particular group of RT's sound together. You can right click the instrument and use any RT you want completely independent of the style. Example, it could be a jazz waltz RT style and you click on the guitar instrument and change the RT to a 4/4 grunge heavy metal guitar solo. It will probably sound like crap but you can do it. More to a real world scenario, if the jazz guitar RT comping is too busy, maybe one of the Dire guitar comps would fit or a basic country one might work. Changing RT's like that doesn't involve the Stylemaker. The Stylemaker is strictly midi. You can put any RT you want on any track at any time.
People buy the program, look at the list of styles and think that's all they have to work with. Not so. Biab is a toolbox and PG gives you all the tools you need to do pretty much anything you want to do. If you don't want to learn the Stylemaker, there's third party vendors like Norton Music. Notes has created thousands of pretty good sounding styles over the years.
Bob
Last edited by jazzmammal; 06/09/11 11:15 AM.
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2008
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Expert
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Expert
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With that comment about the vocalist that got confused with the background "spitting out" all sorts of confusing "backing"...I recall how another program, that I truely love
the iRealBook, that offers you "simplified", however disconcerting trio backing...to even those who have sung jazz for years, mostly utilizing extended or "drop chords"...
Well, altho my ear and memory are pretty good at picking up on a tune immediately, even with an extra sexy (dissonant??) intro by the accompanyist (even me)...
when I go into a iRealBook tune (an overwhelming number of the "standards" in the electronic fake book are uptempo) and so...
With just a two-bar countdown before "this backup trio" takes off into the number, more than once it's taken me a "run through" or at least a few bars into the tune before I
pick up on the actual "pro" chords that suddenly appear "at tempo"!
It could be a tune I'm happy to have done many times before...but some of these melody lines can be hidden pretty good by those chords.
It isn't surprising to me that many vocalist can get tripped up by the jazzy chord stuff!
Some time, even slowing the tempo of the "cooked-up" changes, doesn't help all that much.
That's why I have such great respect for many of females, Like Jane Monheit, Shirly Horn, and scores of other jazz singers, these gals have a natural (or studied.. even), ear... for "taking chords in" with what seems as an uncanny "ease"!!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 196
Apprentice
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Apprentice
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I sometimes have strange sounding realtrack 7th chords but change these to 9th chords and they sound OK. I have no idea why this works.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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FrankK, that is a technique I've passed along here every so often, having discovered it in BIAB by accident. The more detail you specify in the chord, the fewer choices BIAB has to guess what you might want.
If you just say "D", you could get a major seven or even a minor seven or a sixth added in, or a second, or a ninth, or a 6/9 or a Major 9 or ... depending on the style and somewhat on the "jazz up the chords" setting.
If you write a 9th chord, like "D9", it implies the dominant/minor seventh is present and especially prevents the occurrence of a sharp nine or flat nine. If you write a "D7", you could get those alterations, and that may be what you are hearing and objecting to.
Now, having said that, although I might write D9 in a BIAB song, I would generally put D7 in a chart, and let the piano and guitar decide.
For another example, if you write D7alt, you could get a flat five, a sharp five, a flat nine and/or a sharp nine. Jazz players mix these on the fly. If you want a particular voicing, especially to match a melody, you should write it (for example, D7#9).
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Would you specify what style(s) you're using? I have the "jazz the chords up" checked on, but have never heard a major third played on any of my minor chords. Later, Ray
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Would you specify what style(s) you're using? I have the "jazz the chords up" checked on, but have never heard a major third played on any of my minor chords. Later, Ray
+1 to that.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,830
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
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lrd,
Yes, it would be nice if BB REalTracks didn't ever play a natural 6 on the V7 chord in minor keys, and we do plan on improving that in the future.
In the meantime....
You can get around that issue by typing A7b9 for the chord, instead of A7. (in other cases, where you're not wanting b9 or b13, you can type A9). All these embellishments only happen with "plain 7 th chords", so you can get around them by typing something more specific in cases where there is a clash with the melody for example.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
All these embellishments only happen with "plain 7 th chords"...
Ah, and therein is the reason. Thanks, Peter.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 303
Journeyman
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Quote:
The software is written to satisfy 'most' users. You may fall outside of this parameter.
Even if you wouldn't have Oliver Gannon in your band, trust me, he had some input into this matter.
However you can go in and edit several parameters that give you control over the 'embellishment' thing. The first is to turn that off. The second is to read the tutorial, find the way to edit the style and set the parameter to zero.
who's 'most users' ? WE are 'most users'. I don't know what other users you are referring to. Maybe they are more special than some others?
Falling outside of that parameter...you mean the one where users expects a chord progression to play back exactly as specified? That is, about 95 per cent of us? Oh yes, THAT parameter 
The problem with Band in a Box is that it is WAY too oriented toward jazz. All the extensions and altered notes can only work if you, as a musician, know EXACTLY what you are doing.....and you can't really let a SOFTWARE decide that for you. Or at least, there should be more options, because the ones that are there, don't really work.
Band in a box should only aid creativity, but to me the mistake is trying to make it do all the work for you, which will never work.
As for editing styles....is there at least a good tutorial video about that? if not ,I'll forget about it, life is too short to figure out every single thing on a computer.
This is just constructive criticism, I don't mean putting down the software, I have used it for years, and I will continue to, but sadly often I had to work really hard to make it do things that are quite basic, really. It should not be like that. It should not require all that hard work, i.e. scanning through dozens of RT and styles to find some that will play back chords as I intend to.
In my opinion, PG Music should really get rid of this 'more is better' philosophy. I doubt that mayhem is what most people want, they want to write music with the least amount of headache.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2004
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Journeyman
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Quote:
FrankK, that is a technique I've passed along here every so often, having discovered it in BIAB by accident. The more detail you specify in the chord, the fewer choices BIAB has to guess what you might want.
If you just say "D", you could get a major seven or even a minor seven or a sixth added in, or a second, or a ninth, or a 6/9 or a Major 9 or ... depending on the style and somewhat on the "jazz up the chords" setting.
so how do I avoid a major triad playing back as a LYDIAN triad, as it has happened many times? You tell me. How do I avoid having BB mixing chords from the NATURAL minor and MELODIC minor? That happened quite a few times ,too.
As for the stylemaker, as I said before, I am all for learning, but the least I could expect is PG to make a video tutorial about that, in order to minimize all these problems. But I want to see that in a video. I don't think is too much to ask?
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2004
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
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by the way, I really don't understand this 'being as specific as possible' philosophy....if you type A means A major, i.e. A,C sharp and E, nothing more and nothing less. A7 means the above triad plus a minor seventh from the root. Nothing more should be specified.
But if I am in the key of A major, and I type E7, and BB plays back E7b9, and I don't want that because at the same time a passing note F sharp is playing in the melody that I recorded, then it's certainly not my fault that F and F sharp are clashing.
E7b9 in that key would be a so-called 'borrowed chord'. BB should even have menus for that, or else just play back E7. If the user wants a b9 top, he can play it in the melody notes, if not, it's ok too.
I think is really all much simpler. All that is needed is to program the styles and RT with the least amount possible of passing tones, alterations and extensions. Keep it simple, don't overcrowd the passages. If I want a Lydian fourth on a maj7 chord, I'll play it in the melody, or not. Why complicating things ? The computer already takes a valuable amount of time from our lives. Simpler is better!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2011
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I love the embellishment that biab does , it makes me play scales I never did before . Plus I always play to the bands chord decision rather than make a melody and then try to have biab play to it. I still have the same simplified pattern issues as you ,but have used a semi-workaround by having an offending instrument hold that chord and let the rest play normally . Not perfect but helps hold the band to a little less over-playing.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
All that is needed is to program the styles...
Isn't this what I told you to do? Dude, you're rambling on and on about all this irrelevant crap but you're not answering the basic questions like this one from Ray:
Quote:
Would you specify what style(s) you're using? I have the "jazz the chords up" checked on, but have never heard a major third played on any of my minor chords. Later, Ray
Answer the question and be specific like you used this style, entered these chords and this is what happened on the 'B" section or whatever so we can try to duplicate it or maybe modify it so it plays what you want.
You said this:
Quote:
but to me the mistake is trying to make it do all the work for you, which will never work.
Buddy, I hate to break the news to you but this is what Biab is designed to do. Read the blurbs on the PG Music home page. All these workarounds are for people like you who don't want that. This is exactly what most people want, to enter some chords and have the program do all the work for them. Don't you get it?
You want precision, use Real Band, not Biab. RB is a sequencer with some Biab functions. You can write stuff exactly how you want it there.
And, learn the Stylemaker. You need someone to hold your hand or what? It's all there in the manual and help files. Poor baby, no video tutorial? R...T...F...M.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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There is a video tutorial on how to make styles and thus modify them.
I wanted a band in a box.
Not a baton and composer.
I got what I wanted.
90 percent of the stuff I listen to was done without sheet music, just jazz. My thing. I'm happy.
But I'll admit, I went to see Jazz at the Lincoln centre orchestra and they all had music.. Even the drummer who never looked at anything but his sheets off to his left, my neck hurt for him.
The odd note clashes, hey it happens in live jazz all the time, you resolve and keep goin'. The last chord is always tasty. Because of resolve. LOL. Someone does it.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Like you said this is the way the program is designed: 1)..an intelligent automatic accompaniment program for your multimedia computer. ..... go from “nothing” to “something” in a very short period of time. 2)... automatically generating a complete professional-quality arrangement of piano, bass, drums, guitar, and strings or horns in a wide variety of popular styles plus 3) ...a powerful and creative music composition tool for exploring and developing musical ideas with near-instantaneous feedback. To fully appreciate this program you have to understand what it does, how it does it and (maybe most important of all) what it does not do. 
BIAB – 2025, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, 1TB WD Black NVMe SSD, 2TB WDC Blue SSD, 1TB WD Blue, 2 TB SK NVMe, 6 TB External, Motu Audio Express 6x6
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Band-in-a-Box 2025 Italian Version is Here!
Cari amici
È stata aggerate la versione in Italiano del programma più amato dagli appassionati di musica, il nostro Band-in-a-Box.
Questo è il link alla nuova versione 2025.
Di seguito i link per scaricare il pacchetti di lingua italiana aggiornati per Band-in-a-Box e RealBand, anche per chi avesse già comprato la nuova versione in inglese.
Band-in-a-Box 2025 - Italiano
RealBand 2025 - Italiano
Band-in-a-Box 2025 French Version is Here!
Bonjour à tous,
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 pour Windows est disponible en Français.
Le téléchargement se fait à partir du site PG Music
Pour ceux qui auraient déjà acheté la version 2025 de Band-in-a-Box (et qui donc ont une version anglaise), il est possible de "franciser" cette version avec les patchs suivants:
BIAB 2025 - francisation
RealBand 2025 - francisation
Voilà, enjoy!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 German Version is Here!
Update Your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 to Build 1128 for Windows Today!
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Get the latest update today!
PowerTracks Pro Audio 2025 for Windows is Here!
PowerTracks Pro Audio 2025 is here! This new version introduces many features, including VST3 support, the ability to load or import a .FLAC file, a reset option for track height in the Tracks window, a taller Timeline on the Notation window toolbar, new freeze buttons in the Tracks window, three toolbar modes (two rows, single row, and none), the improved Select Patch dialog with text-based search and numeric patch display, a new button in the DirectX/VST window to copy an effects group, and more!
First-time packages start at only $49. Already a PowerTracks Pro Audio user? Upgrade for as little as $29!
www.pgmusic.com/powertracks.htm
Video: Summary of the New Band-in-a-Box® App for iOS®
Join Tobin as he takes you on a tour of the new Band-in-a-Box® app for iOS®! Designed for musicians, singer-songwriters, and educators, this powerful tool lets you create, play, and transfer songs effortlessly on your iPhone® or iPad®—anytime, anywhere.
Band-in-a-Box® for iOS® :Summary video.
Check out the forum post for more information.
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