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I am new (since last January) and have 2010.5 for windows with the 318 rebuild download.
I've been able to figure out things pretty well til I wrote a song with a bridge followed by a chorus (using term traditionally)then a key change to two stanzas, a two line tag and then out. I find that I really don't understand much of the way first and second endings apply or don't to a given situation.
With A being a 4 line stanza, B a chorus, C a bridge the format is A A B A A C B (key change) A A tag end.Would someone be able to advise me on this? Sure would be grateful...I've been getting nowhere for hours. I get close by creating a long tag which serves as the part from C forward but I can't stop B from repeating before the bridge(C)because I am using the BIAB formula of calling once through (A A B) a chorus with a two chorus format. Should I just go linear with no repeat? That has caused me memory problems with other songs until I figured out what they mean by a "chorus".Sorry...I bet that's completely confusing!Thanks!
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Hello and welcome : )
I use Edit - Unfold (to one long chorus). The "unfold" will layout your song from start - finish. That would be the easiest way to set up your verse, chorus etc . . .
Trax
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Thanks Trax! I take this to mean that I really have to stop thinking in the terms we use when playing in the real world and forget trying to use first/second ending approach in BIAB. So what you're saying is basically yes...go linear. So unfold cancels all this stuff I have saved that isn't working?
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I don't use tags, repeats etc, but there are tutorial videos available to walk you through the set up of those features. Linear, yes. That is the easiest method for me when working on a full song with codas etc . . You can save prior to the unfold and just rename it when you unfold it and save again  Trax
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No, I think it will incorporate all that stuff, but at least then you can see how to go about fixing it. I find Realband easier to work in for just this reason. BiaB sections of a song sometimes don't agree with what I want and I have to stop and think about it. RB is more 'linear', and makes more sense to me. Your mileage may vary.
I get a progression and tempo and style down in BiaB (which is a ton of the workload when writing songs).
Then I move to RB to lay it out in a linear form I find more comfortable. It's free to try; it came with the BiaB disk. I know a few people that were used to recording on the old multitrack systems, and since RB acts like the old tape decks they took to it right away. BiaB and RB are different ways of getting the job done. Some like a circular saw to get the cut done quick, some like a jigsaw to get the cut done clean. Often it depends on what yer cuttin
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Thanks rharv. I'll start working with RB.Trying to figure out how BIAB views song structure has eluded me.Can't find anything on it that seems to deal with in a clear way...not yet anyway!
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Brian, Like the above, I always unfold a song into a single chorus. It's so much easier to work with. I use the blue and green part markers to separate individual sections. Below is how I laid out a song with exactly the verse, chorus, verse, bridge, chorus format that you describe.  I: 1 - 3 V: 4 - 13 C: 14 - 23 V: 24 - 33 B: 34 - 37 C: 38 - 49 (includes ending) I = intro; V = verse; B = bridge; C = chorus Just in case you don't know, the blue and green part markers are obtained by left-clicking on the bar number (one click for blue, two clicks for green, three clicks for none). These markers are important because in the bar before a part marker there will be a drum break and instrumental variation that helps to aurally define the transition from one section to another. Typically, the section that begins with a green part marker will have more melodic and rhythmic movement than the section that begins with a blue one (hence my use of green for the beginning of the chorus). Hope this helps, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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That's really super helpful.The screenshot is great! Thanks Noel! This basic structure thing really should be logically addressed in a candidly and simply written section called "structuring a song".Maybe it is...this program takes a bit to find the info you need. I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong. What a great forum...thanks to everyone. One question: working this way is it necessary to use the "unfold" feature in edit first?
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Brian, I also prefer the one-long-song approach, since it leaves nothing to chance and allows me to control exactly what I want to hear.
While the experience of others may be different, I have sometimes found that my melody gets a little out of place if I have multiple choruses and a tag with a melody, then add some measures or raise the number of choruses. In other words, I prefer to get the song structure locked down - however it is, with multiple choruses or unfolded into one long song - before doing all the final copying of the melody into later choruses and tags.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Matt,thanks for the reply.You helped me out last February and then I got into other things for awhile. This song formatting I find completely confusing and it seems I'm not alone. The reason I stopped going linear is that it seems to get a little jammed up and not play as well. I had one track that just went nuts on me. Having no idea why or how to fix it I just did it over.From what the guys have taught me here today I am able to proceed...I am concerned about the impact going straight through on a linear path seems to have on the sync of certain instruments though. Any tips on that?
Thanks again....much appreciated!
Brian
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Brian,
I always use the above linear approach and it has not impacted on instrumental synchronization at all.
Sometimes, though, a track doesn't always generate with the best choice of sounds for a particular section. That's where Realband is excellent. In RB it's possible to take a generated and track and then to superimpose generated sections of that track. This makes it possible to build a track that suits exactly.
Regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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Brian, I have not had any sync problems in over a decade, and the last time I did, it was because of a badly behaving network card.
Clearly, you should not be having sync problems, which I take to mean that something gets out of sync as time goes on. To help you, we really need details about your system: hardware, OS, BIAB version, BIAB MIDI settings, ASIO or MME, VST or hardware synth, etc. Whether the problem is repeatable, which RealTrack(s). The whole thing.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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I wonder if it is confusing to say "one long chorus" when the word "chorus" is traditionally defined as "the common part that repeats after the verses".
I use what you are calling the "linear" approach as well. No loops, no codas, no repeating sections.... start with measure 1 and go to measure whatever and call it all "song". It does have an intro, a verse, a bridge, a chorus, a midtro, a half verse, a bridge, a chorus, a solo, a chorus, and an outro. Sometimes I extend sections with an extra 2 measures of a suspended chord for tension before the release provided by the chorus, and that "looping" approach would get sticky for me. Unless I could specify "go back to measure 22" (and I am sure there is a way but I don't care to spend hours reading help files that are named with cryptic names to find it) that doesn't help me. So it's "linear" programming for me, what I prefer to call "top down", a computer programming term.
This is the kind of stuff I referred to in another post I called "Simple Mode" in the wish list forum. Have a mode that takes all that window dressing off the screen and just have the spreadsheet, the file utilities, and the transport controls. Again, I suppose there is a way to hide all the icons I will NEVER touch, but I can't use the time I should be writing for reading hundreds of help files.
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Hey,Eddie.Yeah..."top down"...ok. "Cryptic names"...perfect! Just trying to sort through the process of finding the information required per a simple musical need is enough to drive most musicians nuts.Me anyway. That and the presence of endless useless "styles" that sound like they were made by a four year old to annoy his mother! I must take some time and form favorite lists of styles...I think I saw a way to do that.It's a great program though and I don't regret buying it...just wish I could get through the learning curve. I have no patience for wasting huge amounts of time with badly represented information topics while musical ideas vanish into space. But then,the the entire computer world is plagued by this extra terrestial "what?speak" so...whatever! I would love to see an "I want to" index with topics created by songwriter/musicians. For example: >Delete all time signature changes back to chosen style default so I can start over addressing this only without wiping out the whole sheet.<
I am doing a bluegrass tune which has a recurring measure of two.In the process something got screwed up and two thirds through it starts visually lagging behind the playback...first by two beats then 4 etc...seems to increase as playback continues. There is something schitzy in this change time signature procedure...I've had this happen before. I ask it to change one measure and it changes two....sometimes...aaagh! Is there a way to undo these changes? Is there a trick to this?
Thanks for your help. Much appreciated!
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Brian,
One way that I have found that often takes me back to some kind of beginning when bar settings go awry is to left-click on the chord sheet, select "Bar Settings" from the pop-up menu, and then down the bottom of the dialogue box that then pops up is a button labelled "reset all bars". I have found this reset useful.
A word of warning ... if you decide to try it, save your song with a new file name first so that you can always reload the old song if needed.
Regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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How about putting your song (sgu mgu ) on a link or in dropbox and see if someone bites? Sounds like you just need part markers when your 2 bars are.
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Yes, try Noel's suggestion, and if it doesn't help, please post the song. "Out of sync" can mean different things, and I had assumed it was an audio problem. This now appears to be a visual displacement and we should be able to find the cause of it in BIAB.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Matt, I tried Noel's approach and got everything straightened out. I did run into the visual sync thing again but it occurred to me that maybe it was because I was using "replay" and the tracks weren't regenerating even though my understanding is that they do that in replay "as required". So I did a play and everything regenerated in visual and audio sync.(Makes sense) I think I learned that there is a point at which a work in progress needs a new "play" so it can get itself together with evolving changes. Besides it seems that if there is a preferred playback version it seems to come back around soon enough anyway...two or three cycles seems to get back around to it.
This program has enabled me to write again after an accident two years ago that disabled my left fingers and learning the value of this forum has really encouraged me.(I've been playing since 1956 so that left a bit of an empty spot)This program really is a total gas and is NOT difficult...it's just getting the information and learning its behavior that can be quite a process! Definitely worth whatever it takes but without this forum? I don't think so!
So thanks again to all in helping me with this! Now that I'm getting these foundational things worked out thanks to this great feedback I intend to move on to RB which I haven't even touched yet. I look forward to being able to give back here.
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Hi Brian,
I'm pleased to read that it's coming together for you. BIAB/RB certainly have learning curves associated with them. It took me a couple of weeks before I started to feel comfortable with the programs. After that, the learning curves didn't have quite as big a slope to them! One thing that I can say with absolute certainty, though, is that the effort I put into learning was well worth the results that these programs gave me.
Good luck with your adventure!
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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Brian, thanks for sharing the good news. And, as you've discovered, Noel is one of the great treasures around here.
Hey, for someone with trouble in the left fingers, there's always trumpet! However, I've been playing as long as you, and I keep wondering why so many people come up to me at concerts and say they USED to play trumpet. What do they know that I don't? Just kidding...
Matt
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
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