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Cutting off that discussion was an unreasonable thing to do. It was and remained about music. Our (U.S.) way of life is under assault by a Marxist thug and his accomplices. We as musicians are increasingly affected by the actions of this . . . person.
Obama and his policies are effectively terrorizing the music industry (and others) by creating laws which, if they can be obeyed at all--and some are made so that they cannot--crush the life out of art and commerce at the point of a gun. Whether it is a SWAT-style raid on a manufacturing plant (Gibson), the persecution of an individual (A-440 Pianos in Atlanta), or acting as a silent accomplice in the destruction of the "Fair Use" doctrine by allowing record companies to take action against clubs and individuals for playing or using music whether or not for profit, it affects us directly and indirectly as artists and musicians.
Cutting off discussion without warning was as heavy handed as the tactics we were decrying. I request that the topic be reopened.
Richard Letaw
Atlanta, GA
Last edited by Ryszard; 08/30/11 10:47 AM.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Quote:
Cutting off discussion without warning was as heavy handed as the tactics we were decrying. I request that the topic be reopened.
I agree. The topic was musical. It only strayed into politics because the motives for the raid were political. The most that should have been done at this point was to issue a warning, not shut it down.
Last edited by bobcflatpicker; 08/30/11 10:26 AM.
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Journeyman
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The reasons stated by PG Music for the Off Topic Forum, are the reasons that this topic or thread should be left open. Are they suggesting people are using multiple accounts or impersonating others?
What's up with this. They gave no reason.
They just stepped on a lot of toes closing that discussion.
I'd say more, but from the last post on that thread giving their rules I'm now afraid I might be banned.
Remember, it only takes one bad meal to stop going to your favorite restaurant.
Wayne,
Last edited by redguitars; 08/30/11 10:38 AM.
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I haven't tried to visit that post, but this world is a real world, and if someone throws politics definitely as a STONE. The the comment must be illusidated...
For instance some people like JC think they ARE Jesus Christ!!
Altho they may not be concerned with the takeover of our government...we should be able to speak up...not be faced with the politics that are being disseminated being squashed.
When someone like Barak says today that:
“Well, because the key always is if the American people are mobilized, then change happens. When they’re not mobilized, then special interests, lobbyists, the folks who put party ahead of country - those folks are going to benefit.”
I don’t know exactly what to say that hasn’t been said before. This doesn’t represent me. He is the first president in my life time about whom I can say that. Even with Kennedy, LBJ, Clinton, even Carter, I had the idea that this guy was looking at what is best for the country first, and down the line the political end of it. The best presidents seem to tick off both sides, or they make both sides happy. This guy does everything first and foremost with his political hide in mind, second his party and lastly the American people. I think he puts people of the world before us.
Yamaha...Motif ES-8, Motif Rack, CS6X
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Plus, BIAB 2015 and Sonar Platinum 2015 Upgrade from Cakewalk's Sonar X-3
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Quote:
The reasons stated by PG Music for the Off Topic Forum, are the reasons that this topic or thread should be left open. Are they suggesting people are using multiple accounts or impersonating others?
What's up with this. They gave no reason.
They just stepped on a lot of toes closing that discussion.
I'd say more, but from the last post on that thread giving their rules I'm now afraid I might be banned.
Remember, it only takes one bad meal to stop going to your favorite restaurant.
Wayne,
Wayne:
I think the problem was that the discussion went from the Gibson issue to politics, and previous topics that were political went south and nasty very quickly. The worst topic may have been the WMD/Iraq discussion. Not nice at all.
Incidentally, I've changed my address so that everyone will realize that I'm neither a Democrat and Republican (can't be).
Glenn
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I understand PG wanting to keep “overtly” political threads off the forum, but this thread was musical with political undertones because of the motives of the Feds. Discussing the motives was part of trying to figure out why Gibson is being singled out for harassment.
If they thought any particular post was going too far over the line, they should have edited or deleted that particular post and stated their reasons why. Not shut down a thread that has over 1100 views and 70 comments.
The situation with Gibson is a relevant musical topic that is still ongoing and shouldn’t be “off limits” on the forum. I just hope that when and if PG responds to this thread that they don’t simply give a recitation of rule numbers.
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Journeyman
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Without stating any reason or taking any smaller actions first, it seems like something in that thread bothers someone at PG Music. An explanation would be appreciated.
If anyone on the board was offended they would have posted their views in a reply.
It's my opinion the CLOSING of the Gibson thread is a much bigger issue now.
Wayne,
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Holy cow, it is closed! Never seen that here before, You guys are in big trouble now.... 
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Since I moderate a music forum myself, I support the moderation crew on their decision to close the Gibson topic. You can tell when a thread is going take more time and energy than it is worth to keep it civil.
The nice thing about the internet is you can always start your own blog if you have something to say and people want to hear it.
Keith
2026 Audiophile Windows 11 RYZEN THREADRIPPER 3960X 4.5GHZ 128 GB RAM 2 Nvidia RTX 3090s, Vegas,Acid,SoundForge,Izotope Production,Melodyne Studio,SONAR,3 Raven Mtis
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The last couple posts were inflammatory, and contained links to sites that could be considered inflammatory. It needed moderation. Closing? maybe
It's their site, and they are not a US company, so the decision is their's, and I'll respect it.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Quote:
It needed moderation. Closing? maybe
It's their site, and they are not a US company, so the decision is their's, and I'll respect it.
Your right that they aren't a US company. It is their right.
There was a very long discussion on some Yahoo music Forums, all music groups, about instruments made in other countries, mainly China. It did get political. But it was always moderated as opposed to closing it down. But these Yahoo groups are not run by a business.
I feel this annoys me more by closing it as opposed to deleting the posts that they might have had objections to.
Like TV shows, if you don't like it, change the channel. That's why I got rid of cable 6 years ago.
It's like the old saying, My House, My Rules and it is their house.
As far as respecting it, I have no other choice than to respect it. But it would be easier if they gave a reason.
Wayne,
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Quote:
It's their site, and they are not a US company, so the decision is their's, and I'll respect it.
I think you hit the real issue. Obama is not their president.
It may be an issue that does not cross borders, but the USA has lost ENOUGH businesses. To put such a venerable, long respected business like Gibson in jeopardy over some grandstand play like this.... what is there to be gained from harrassing Gibson? With a SWAT team raid no less?
Could it be the your typical consumer of the Gibson product like is slightly more affluent and this not as widely found in the urban areas? Another "let's level the playing field by bringing this side down instead of trying to raise that side up?" Who do you think Cash For Clunkers was intended to aid? Not upper middle suburbia.
I don't know what the economy is like in the land of PG Music where medical care is provided for everybody and women who choose to have litters of children with no father figure receive "Mother's Aid". Here in the US we have to fight to keep EVERY JOB WE CAN, and moves like this one will cause a company the magnitude of Gibson to relocate to Mexico and take advantage of that $4 an hour labor, maybe next door to Fender's Ensenada plant on the Baja.
American musicians everywhere are very upset by this move reminiscent of Nazi Germany. It is all over Facebook, MySpace, and every music forum I visit, and I haven't yet mentioned news shows and radio broadcasts.
This issue is something close to our hearts.
This is right up there on the despicable level with cities suddenly deciding to charge clubs with live music an "entertainment tax". Nobody was aware that such a tax even existed, since it has never been enforced. Now, years later, they are like sharks swimming in the blood filled waters waiting for prey to get tired of swimming so they can consume them. They are adding penalties and interest to taxes they did not even know they owed.
And on any scale, that is the poor stealing from the rich, like this president attacking Gibson. Some modern day Robin Hood taking from the rich to lower the standard of American living yet again.
I am SO glad my trip is almost over....
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Quote:
I am SO glad my trip is almost over....
eddie, I make you for about 60 give or take a few, so whats your hurry. Do you know something we don't? Best guess would be you got another 15 - 25, still plenty of time to have an impact. 
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eddie, I make you for about 60 give or take a few, so whats your hurry. Do you know something we don't? Best guess would be you got another 15 - 25, still plenty of time to have an impact.
60 is right on target, but health issues will like see me cash in somewhere around 7-8 years from now. And I am not whining to garner sympathy. It is what it is and there is no sense trying to hide in a barrel of make believe sunshine. Diabetics under best of circumstance see their lives shortened by 15 years or so. Factor in that I was diabetic for 30 years before anybody noticed (since exposure to Agent Orange in Vietnam) and much damage was done. Every year I seem to play a benefit jam for some friend or another who dies from diabetic complications, the last one 2 years ago who left us at 59.
To be honest, I don't want to live until I can't walk, or have to live on pills, roll around in a chair or on a cart.... I am starting to get to the point where I will start losing toes soon, them more of my feet, then maybe lower legs, then full legs.... that isn't living and I'll pass.
I am not in a hurry by choice, but I am a realist and I am comfortable with mortality statistics for diabetics.
But you won't get rid of me THAT soon.
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Well:
#1 I'm 60 now, and what's that mean? I dodged a major bullet and am a bit past the 6 percent survival rate for stage IV cancer. Now, every day, I cross off a day, but like you I don't know how many are left.
#2 American. OK. Big Country. Big Politics. Big revisionism.
I didn't really follow the thread, and didn't see it, but in my experience nothing trumps you guys 'shooting' at each other. Really. Predicable. Not fascinating. Just it happens.
And when you just ducked the big bullet, and were 10 minutes from the end, the perspective changes.
So I sit, (I have trouble walking the chemo killed my long nerves, read legs, arms etc. And my hearing.) but I stand in awe of the meltdown. I really find it hard to believe that sub prime mortgages sold to other countries downed the world's economies. I guess in the end we are all dumb.
Now, listen to Frank and My Way, and Fly me too the Moon.
And who the heck is JC who thinks he is the historic guy. I'd rather be Klinger from Mash, or Papageno, I'm not sure witch. (Sp. on porpoise, go fish)
Video allegedly slew the star of the radio. I hear it in a song.
The last I looked the US was under us. So it may be. We have the hydrocarbons. And we can frack.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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BTW, my distal lingua is stuck permanently in my buccae major LOL.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Well the discussion on that is not closed in Canada. They did a reminder about the rules.
Note the word discussion contains the word cuss. Funny that.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Quote:
I think you hit the real issue. Obama is not their president.
I think the real issue is that PGMusic is a business, this forum is a reflection of the company, and it is in their best interest to keep things positive and upbeat here.
Guys, if we really love this company as much as we all say we do, let's show our support by doing everything we can to avoid alienating ANY potential customers
Small price to pay for all that we get in return
(read read read...)
man, I just re-read that, and it sounds kinda pompous... but I don't mean it that way...
OK, how about this:
"of all the things we may disagree on, I feel sure that honoring the best interest of PGMusic is something we can all immediately agree on."
yeah, that's the ticket..
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Sincere thanks to the moderator and to PG Music for unlocking the discussion in question. It is a subject which interests us vitally. While there is strong feeling attached to the matter, I believe that its expression is in accord with, but quite moderate in comparison to, the nature of the actions we are witnessing.
Richard
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Quote:
... what is there to be gained from harrassing Gibson? With a SWAT team raid no less?
. . . Another "let's level the playing field by bringing this side down instead of trying to raise that side up?" Who do you think Cash For Clunkers was intended to aid? Not upper middle suburbia.
. . . on any scale, that is the poor stealing from the rich, like this president attacking Gibson. Some modern day Robin Hood taking from the rich to lower the standard of American living yet again.
Eddie,
I respectfully suggest that you read the article I cited earlier in its entirety; but in particular the following: "The anti-colonialist believes that since the rich have prospered at the expense of others, their wealth doesn't really belong to them; therefore whatever can be extracted from them is automatically just."
Believe it or not, I am restraining myself mightily as I have exceedingly deep feelings about the man and his goals. Like I said, read the article. I believe that much will be revealed.
Richard
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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