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Mac you might be correct with the sting stretching. I remember the guitarists in the early bands that I played sax in always having a problem with string stretching. I started getting serious on guitar a few years ago and never had problems -- so I figured string technology must have gotten better. It would have been a big assumption to think that I would be winding strings on the peg better than all the guys I used to play with. And yes, nylon strings stretch, and stretch, and stretch. Jamerson used either an Ampeg B-15 or B-18  and if my memory serves me well, it was a B-18 (or else it got bigger in my mind in all these years since I did the thing with Motown that my memory has enlarged his amp due to his huge stature in my mind - he was one of a kind). And I don't think flat wound bass strings ever go bad until they break. When I played bass (P bass), I never changed them, kept the "ash tray" and damper "sponge" at the bridge and never wanted to put a new set on because new bass strings have too much edge to my ears. Personally, I would ignore a marketing term like "hand crafted" or at least treat it with a health dose of skepticism, as I do the word "natural" when applied to food (coal-tar dye is considered natural). I'm sure my newest guitar (Parker DF) was hugely machine made, and that doesn't affect me at all. What does is that it is comfortable to hold, a dream to play, and has a variety of excellent sounds. Whatever they did, they did it right. Since I got my DF last November, I think I've picked up my Gibson ES-330 twice at the most. And being that the 330 was made in 1970, I'm sure it was hand made. Not that the Gibson is an inferior guitar - for someone else it would be played more than the DF. What I'm saying is design, personal preference, and function matter more to me than how the instrument was made. Insights and incites by Notes ♫
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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while we're on the topic of CADCAM manufacturing, here's a video of what I do for a living (CNC programmer making airfoils for power generation using this same machine) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__q5IfluE...7EBE2117A00A485musical tie-in: because airfoils are resonant bodies, milling them is somewhat like machining a tuning fork. The pitch of a milling cut varies with the speeds and feeds of the tool, combined with the resonant frequency of the workpiece. I've often thought it would make an interesting experiment to program a song by changing the speeds and feeds of a long milling job. I wonder what the machine operator would think if the turbine blade he was machining started playing FUNKY TOWN... 
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Quote:
I've often thought it would make an interesting experiment to program a song by changing the speeds and feeds of a long milling job. I wonder what the machine operator would think if the turbine blade he was machining started playing FUNKY TOWN...
One of the Carnegie Mellon engineering students once did exactly that - and used the machine in a performance.
Started out a big chunk of 6061-T6 AL, ended with nuthin' but chips.
His chosen piece was the Mozart variations on the Twinkle Twinkle theme, though.
Was a riot of a performance.
Possibly because he used the cutting fluid squirters as parts of the note groups...
--Mac
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Quote:
One of the Carnegie Mellon engineering students once did exactly that - and used the machine in a performance.
Started out a big chunk of 6061-T6 AL, ended with nuthin' but chips.
His chosen piece was the Mozart variations on the Twinkle Twinkle theme, though.
Was a riot of a performance.
Possibly because he used the cutting fluid squirters as parts of the note groups...
--Mac
Mac,
sounds like a hoot! Thanks for letting me know that somebody actualized the idea. I'd love to know whether he derived the relationship between RPMs and music frequency by trial and error, or if he had a mathematical calculation that worked predictable enough to yield the results he got.
(Did you personally see this?)
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Yes, I attended the performance.
As I recall, the fellow wrote some code (I think he used an Apple II ! but consider when it was...) that, with a few notes found empirically as starting points, allowed him to correlate the sounds to the Tempered Scale, or "map" them if you prefer that nomenclature.
I do remember that he could load songs as songfiles, and there may or may not have been MIDI involved, but I'd be willing to bet that MIDI played a part in it if I was a betting man, which I'm not. Use of the venerable old Apple II just SCREAMS MIDI IMO, right?
--Mac
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Quote:
<...>
and Notes,
your Parker DF is certainly an example of an instrument that achieves high standards of quality and function because of CAD modelling prior to manufacturing.<...>
I don't care that it wasn't hand crafted, the result is superb.
And somebody put some magic in there somewhere along the way
Plus it was made in the USA! (Nothing wrong with that).
Last edited by Notes Norton; 09/25/11 06:31 PM.
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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These guitars are hand made: http://www.lazarguitars.com/Michael and I were buddies from grade two until we finished high school in 1958. His guitars are definitely hand made, no CNC or automation that I'm aware of. For any of you that are interested in how a guitar is made his site is pretty good I think. We still keep touch, but rarely on musical topics - usually political and financial issues. Glenn I will digress a bit: When we were in grade seven, we all took the so-called IQ tests. My father was the school principal, and later in confidence he related to me that Michael scored in the 150 range. Mick was always a quick study - I recall us studying together for high school final exams - we mostly just sat and goofed off talking about the teachers, but he still scored A's in everything.
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Quote:
Quote:
<...>
and Notes,
your Parker DF is certainly an example of an instrument that achieves high standards of quality and function because of CAD modelling prior to manufacturing.<...>
I don't care that it wasn't hand crafted, the result is superb.
And somebody put some magic in there somewhere along the way
Plus it was made in the USA! (Nothing wrong with that).
I didn't mean to suggest there was anything wrong with automation (and CERTAINLY nothing wrong with being American made!) ... in fact, my opinion is that automation dramatically INCREASES the quality of nearly any product.
Many of the same comparisons we make between BIAB and "real musicians" (never show up late, never make mistakes, don't drink your beer, don't talk back etc" could also be made about industrial robots and automated processes in general.
They don't take breaks (so production is high and the final cost to you is lower)
They don't have bad days (consistent quality and high customer satisfaction)
They work to a much higher degree of precision than a human could EVER do... and they can keep it up indefinitely.
in our plant, some processes are automated and some are manual. WITHOUT EXCEPTION, the highest number of customer complaints are because of the high human variability in the manual processes.
The higher price associated with hand crafted instruments is mostly due to the long hours it takes a human to do an inferior job. The low price of automated instruments is because they can be made so much faster without errors , rework or scrap to add cost.
If you could buy a production line instrument for $700 or an equivalent hand made item for $3,000, you'd have to choose the $3,000 instrument for some reason OTHER than quality and precision craftsmanship.
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Quote:
[<...>
I didn't mean to suggest there was anything wrong with automation (and CERTAINLY nothing wrong with being American made!) ... in fact, my opinion is that automation dramatically INCREASES the quality of nearly any product. <...>
I didn't think you were suggesting that automation was inferior. Sorry if I gave you that impression.
The DF goes for about $1,400 and it's worth every penny.
The fit and finish of the guitar is perfect, it has a wide variety of tones that all sound great, and the design and 'playability' of the guitar is superb. If I were to get "nit-picky" there are only two things I'd change about it. (1) I'd move the mag/piezo switch to a place where I could see it's condition without moving my head and (2) I'd put a quick-connect on the battery cable (I'm going to do that myself).
I'm happy that it was made in the USA because it's a great guitar, and sometimes it seems like we lost that "best in the world" attitude. IMHO this is the best 'super-strat' guitar in the world (of course I haven't tried them all).
Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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