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Ummm . . . 'cause there were no electric keyboards?
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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that was my thought. i think they made the scene in the early 60s but i'm only guessing, sans wikipedia.
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Mike linked to an article that pointed out that electric keyboards came out concurrent with Rock and Roll in the 50's. The question therefore is "Why didn't the pioneers of RnR make use of the existing technology?"
Keith
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Run with what you brung.... perhaps.
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Didn't they have just piano available until the Farfisa organ in the early 60s? Jimmy Smith played a Hammond in the 50s, though it was first available to the public in the mid 30s.
And every synthesizer on the planet has tried to recreate it. I have several keyboards that come close, but nothing is a B3 but a B3.
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Quote:
but nothing is a B3 but a B3.
Warning - do not try any of the Nord Electro or Stage series - you have been warned.
A B3 that fits under your arm. Recorded, most would not be able to tell the difference. Trust me on this. Of all the music gear I pine for, I have true lust for either a Nord Electro or Stage.
Serious. Serious. B3 Mojo.
-Scott
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I can tell the difference, Scott. Unless there are nine key contacts per key all hittin' at slightly different times, anyone who has actually sat a Hammond tonewheel organ night after night likely doesn't know what to listen for.
As for the notion that there were no electric keyboards available in the 50's -- Ray Charles was a pioneer with his use of the Wurlitzer electric piano. Matter of history that Ray formed his first "Combination" by paring down a bigband to just drums, bass, his Wurlitzer piano, plus one sax, one trumpet and one trombone. When Ray finally came up with a voicing that worked with those horns along with that piano, Quincy Jones wrote in is bio that Ray came running across the street and quite excitedly dragged Quincy up to Ray's apartment to hear what Ray called his, "Combo" -- a word that became part of the vocabulary to describe the smaller groups that today are called "bands" -- At that time, in order to call yourself a band, you'd better have had about seventeen pieces. What'd I Say? But I digress, sorry. Just Hit the Road, Jack 'n Gimmie Money, Honey, That's What I Like.
I think that most pianists of that era couldn't adapt nor relate to a different instrument than their beloved acoustic pianos, which makes a whole lotta sense if you ever owned *any* of the early analog electric and electronic keboards, one has to adapt to them as they cannot adapt to you. Not recommended to try grabbin' big handfuls of 13b9 chords on the old Wurlitzer reeds...
Wurlitzer electric piano, Fender Rhodes electric piano, Hohner Clavinet, Hammond organs of several different types and flavors, these were likely the mainstay instruments that were to become well used by at least the early 60's. The Soul and R&B acts lead the way, though, it took a little longer time for the white rock and roll acts to get on that bandwagon. Some blind cat (Ronny Milsap) who toured with Elvis used to use the Wurly and then the Rhodes, BTW.
MOTOWN, however, was a different story as concerns not only the use but the actual definition of what to do with those kind of keyboards. You Heard That Through the Grapevine, baby.
--Mac
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Hmm, lots of organ (thinking of "Runaway", "Hello Stranger", etc.) and Wurli's (think Ray Charles - especially "What I Say". Then later, the B-3 reigned supreme while the people who couldn't afford one or didn't want to move one played Vox Continental or Farfisa organs.
But technology was different. There were more saxophones in the early days, guitars didn't have effects (except for the intentionally blown speakers the blues guys used for fuzz), and there were fewer electric keyboards to choose from.
Notes
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Mac, hence my use of the word 'most'!
The emulations available in the Nord are very satisfying, nonetheless - with an expression capability hauntingly like the real deal. Again, fitting under an arm.
It's kind of like .mp3; I'll take the portability and convenience of 192 kpbs .mp3 files over having lossless files when I'm driving in my car. It's a great compromise, since the noise floor in my car is so high.
If I had to port around a B3 to gigs, I'd need a crew. The Nord Electro and Stage models are a great compromise and again, to most, the sound is the same.
The B3 emulations in those keyboards are very very close. Of course they are not exact, but it's much closer of an emulation than say a sampler keyboard trying the emulation of a guitar.
-Scott
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Quote:
MOTOWN, however, was a different story as concerns not only the use but the actual definition of what to do with those kind of keyboards. You Heard That Through the Grapevine, baby.
--Mac
And quite a few good sounds came from Booker T and the MG's, though I haven't a clue what the instrument was that they used.
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Tried all those portable organs and I have the CX-3 organ. The 2nd version that came out in the late '90s. The sounds are great to my ears. Later, Ray
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I'm another one. Played Hammonds since my first M3 in 1969, then got a B3 around 1972 or so and had it and gigged with it until maybe 10-12 years ago when I got my Kurzweil with the KB3 option and it just wasn't worth it anymore.
You're right Mac from the POV of the player but maybe not from the audience, even an audience of players. Once it's going out through the PA in a band situation, highly unlikely you'll tell blindfolded. Now if it's a jazz duo or trio in a small lounge where the volume is low and the cat is doing the bass pedals with just drums and a sax and you're hearing the Leslie live, different story. It's mostly because of the bass because with pedals the player is still playing both manuals and any player can hear that. If someone is playing bass on a Nord, the tone could be perfect but he only has two hands and you can hear that he's only playing with his right hand. Add some bass pedals to the Nord and use the same B3 patch, maybe but still no live Leslie so the comparison to a PA would still give it away. However, add the pedals and the Motion Sound Leslie, assuming you can split the keyboard on the Nord for the upper and lower manuals now you have as close to the real deal as you're going to get. Could you tell the difference then in the audience? Maybe depending on how good the player is I guess.
I still think if you're in a larger venue where the Leslie is mic'd anyway, very hard to tell the difference out front.
Bob
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Quote:
And quite a few good sounds came from Booker T and the MG's, though I haven't a clue what the instrument was that they used.
Believe it or not, Booker T used a small Spinet home model Hammond organ with built in 12" speaker and NO Leslie rotating speaker cabinet for his early and famous recordings, relying on the chorus generator in the organ for any animated sounds. Apparently they simply mic'd the speaker under the keyboard in the Spinet and got "THE SOUND". Green Onions was actually a tour de force in knowing what the tonewheel system could do, rather like a small puzzle in a way to figure out how to play that one correctly. Booker took great advantage of the foldback wiring in the Spinet on that one.
Of course, in later years, Booker would show up with a full B3 and a Leslie cabinet for live shows.
Ray Charles also made some reference recordings and appearances in the 50s with a small Hammond Spinet model tonewheel organ, too. As usual for Ray, he managed to find every funky sounding thing the little organ could do and used each to the max. Ray got a lot of mileage from carefully chosen voicings as well. If you can find a re-release of those recordings, well worth the listen for any keyboardist. One of the first things I noticed way back when I found them was that Ray never floored the thing. He found the funk best at about the 2/3 full travel point on the Expression Pedal and often used less as well. As a result, the little organ never strains, even though accompanied by a bigband. Beautiful stuff.
--Mac
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I've played Hammond simulations of just about every brand at some point along the technology path, as already stated, the portage situation alone began to demand that.
NONE of them are spot on, some are very close indeed.
As for being able to tell, sure. The clones all each have their dead giveaways, dig.
BUT -- and this is where the rubber hits the road -- if I'm playing on a clone that happens to not do a certain trick in the fashion of the original -- I try not to ever play that trick on it. Keyboardists without years of experience sittin' the helm of the real B may not realize the existance of or know these things, which often gives the clone away purty quick. I did find it difficult to call the clone when the player was Joey D...
--Mac
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Mac, you amaze me with the detailed info. However, when it comes down to it, for 98% of listeners I don't think the sim giveaways matter. You've quoted it many times; if it sounds good it IS good. You gotta know the difference to notice it. Sometimes I do, but many times I have no idea because it just fits as is so I don't focus on it. 
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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**I use simulators all the time. Both keyboard sims and guitar amp/effects/spkr cabinet sims. Onstage and in the studio. I love the new technologies that allow us to be able to do these things.++
However, I also just call 'em as I hear 'em, man.
Just as Ray and Booker T approached the then new keyboard technology of *their* day, one must or at least I feel one *should* approach the newer technology from the standpoint of finding out that which it does well, that which it may not do so well and that which it cannot do at all, and govern their playing of the instrument accordingly.
Sometimes, though, I run into musicians who keep trying to make the new dog perform an old trick. it is't working, yet for some reason I can't fathom, these musicians persistin trying whatever it is that doesn't work well, be it certain voicings, or perhaps settings, gainstaging, whatever. Then there are those musicians who will become terribly defiant of a new technology as well. That's been going on for a long time, the fact that there still exist organists who demean the tonewheel organ is representative of that. There are also pianists who refuse to understand or use the Rhodes. My own father did not understand my Rhodes stage piano, whenever he tried to play it he approached it as if it were supposed to be an actual real piano. Thus, Pop's attempts to play it. while few and far between, always reminded me of the Good Humor Man's Ice Cream Truck...
At the end of the day, I suppose, mhy particfular viewpoint is, "It's all good".
--Mac
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I will agree wholeheartedly with however mentioned the Nord Electo series. I want one of those so bad I might consider becoming a male prostitute to buy one..... though that would do little to help my cause....
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Quote:
I will agree wholeheartedly with however mentioned the Nord Electo series. I want one of those so bad I might consider becoming a male prostitute to buy one..... though that would do little to help my cause....
Eddie, I will lay claim to putting the Electro into the thread, however I take no responsibility in starting your thoughts of alternative fundraising efforts.
Me want an Electro or Stage (have you checked out the Stage models - even more mojo), but not that bad!
-Scott
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Quote:
Hmm, lots of organ (thinking of "Runaway", "Hello Stranger", etc.) and Wurli's (think Ray Charles - especially "What I Say".
Notes
Actually Bob, Runaway did not use an 'organ ' as we know it
.
To quote
"Runaway"/Del Shannon: The distinctive "organ" part was done on a one-of-a-kind instrument called a Musitron. This ancient, 3-octave, monophonic, tube-driven thing was actually a modified Clavioline, built by Max Crook himself (who played the part on "Runaway"). Check out the official Del Shannon web site for information on the Musitron and more than you ever wanted to know about "Runaway". Now you may run across this very interesting web site, Space Age Pop Music , which claims that it was an Ondioline (a similar instrument), but I believe it's incorrect - there's too much information available, from Max Crook himself among others, to believe otherwise. Also check out Clavioline.com for more than you ever wanted to know about this instrument and its cousins
Cheers,
Keith
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