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RealBand
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 63
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OP
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Hi,
I just got a new Win7 based notebook and installed the latest BIAB (and RealBand).
On my old notebook I was running WinXP Pro with the 2008 version of BIAB and friends.
I'm using an external Ketron SD4 synth module. All was working well with the older installation.
Yesterday I had the first chance to try the new configuration live and ran into an interesting problem.
MIDI sequences that sound fine on the WinXP based machine with 2008 BIAB / RealBand suddenly sound lousy on the Win7 machine with the 2011 BIAB / RealBand software.
It sounds like the output is "detuned" and seems to have other related "strangeness".
I changed back to the old notebook and the same MIDI files sound fine there still.
I tried power cycling the Ketron just in case it was somehow in a funky state. That did not help.
The software synth plays fine.
At first I thought it might be the usual suspect of pitch bend sensitivity not being set and an previous MIDI had set it to 12 semitones, but that was not the case.
This happened on a significant number of MIDI files. All of the files in question are GM and are not trying to use any of the additional patches in the SD4.
Is there something that I have missed in the setup or configuration of the 2011 BIAB software that might explain this?
I just tried playing one of the offending sequences with the 2011 version running on WinXP Pro and I don't seem to have the problem. I'll have to switch the HW synth back to the new notebook and try again, but this might be something happening with the installation on the Win7 notebook. In that case I had installed the 2011 version on the notebook HD and was not trying to run from the external HD. So I'll try that configuration there as well.
Has anyone using an external HW Synth with the 2011 BIAB on Win7 seen anything like this?
Thanks,
Burt
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RealBand
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Joined: Sep 2003
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OK, 1 if it's usb compliant to midi to the Ketron the problem is not there.
If the Ketron does not sound right then you don't have it selected properly.
I suggest, shutdown, reboot with the Ketron there, go into control panel and ensure that it shows up.
If you are using an Edirol interface that's what should show up, NOT windows whatever.
I've done 2 plus year with the Ketron and no problems except for seniors moments.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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RealBand
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In Real Band, look at the menu items up top, hit Action>Send message>GM. What that means is you're telling RB to send a GM reset. I don't have the wording exactly right but you should see it. After that, all my files play correctly but when you close/reopen you have to do it again. Others have said they've had to do that for years but I don't remember doing that under XP but I'm also changing stuff around a lot so I can't remember exactly what I had set up over a year ago.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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RealBand
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The Channel Midi designations are not changed between songs unless some action is taken to reset the Synth. Settings such as Pitchbend, Modulation and Expression are carried forward and can cause distortions in the following song(s). When working with Midi files which contain the above Midi controllers, it is useful to start each track with CC 121 Value Zero which will reset all controllers. When auditioning Midi files and I have this problem, I can reset my Ketron SD2 by turning it off an on.
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RealBand
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Joined: Jan 2009
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OP
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Thanks John,
But it's pretty straight forward. SD4 is plugged into USB port on computer. Win7 identifies it as Ketron SD4 and that is what I select in the MIDI output devices in the RealBand list.
Play a MIDI sequence that is known to work fine under WinXP. Note that it has "issues". Start up the VMWare VM with WinXP Pro running on the same computer. Attach the SD4 to the VM (under XP the driver only says USB Audio Device). Select that USB Audio Device as the MIDI output in RealBand under XP.
Play same exact MIDI file, absolutely fine, great SD4 sounds as always.
In both cases I'm using RealBand 2011, same build, etc. Fresh installs to local hard drive, one install to the Win7 hard drive the other to the WinXP hard drive in the VM. Only obvious difference at the moment is that the one install is under Win7 64 bit and the other is under WinXP (32 bit of course) in the VM. Both running on the same notebook computer.
I'll try sending the GM reset that the other reply mentions, but I don't see any other way to select the Ketron than what I'm doing at present. There is of course a second USB selection option for the SD4, but that one doesn't solve the problem.
I did get an external USB to MIDI adapter yesterday and will try that for grins and giggles.
To the other reply about pitch bend sensitivity and friends, yes I know about that I've hit it the past and actually wrote a utility program that lets me scan MIDI files looking for pitch bend sensitivity issues, reserved CC's being used, and other things that have bitten me in the past with sequences that I have not produced myself. The MIDI(s) I'm testing with are all MIDI specification compliant, and set the pitch bend sensitivity, etc. to proper values with no reserved CCs being used. In addition most of the channels that are "messed up" do not use pitch bend.
Also, I have tried reseting the SD4 by disconnecting it and reconnecting it, and then restarting RealBand. No difference, the output still are messed up when playing under Win7 via RealBand but not under WinXP.
Thanks again to all who have replied. I'll let you know the result of the sending the GM reset.
Burt
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RealBand
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What about new MIDI files you create with RB & the sd4
Lenovo YOGA 900 Window s 10 Home 64bit M4 pro Mac mini 1tb HD 24GB mem casio wk7500 presonus audiobox i2 usb interface
casio wk-7500
biab & realband 2025 everything pk both with Current builds
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RealBand
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Hi Mike,
It is basically any, and all MIDIs.
On another group that I belong to the author of vArranger software which is specifically designed for the SD2/SD4 confirms that the issue does indeed exist with the SD4 and Win7, especially if you are doing a non-trivial MIDI sequence.
He says that there is a new version of Ketron firmware that is shipping with new models that does work well with Win7 as far as USB. This is version 1.31 but it is also reported that with V1.31 the MIDI interfaces on the SD4 don't work well. It is hoped that there may be a beta V1.32 of the firmware that addresses both the USB issue as well as the MIDI interface issues.
Also, he reports that using external USB to MIDI adapters appears to work well with Win7 and the SD4 with the older firmware so that will be my first round of testing.
This is part of the information that he provided:
"On windows 7, some messages are not well interpreted and this cause detunes and mutes..... (Burt - This is exactly what I am experiencing!)
When I asked to ketron about this problem, they told me that the SD4 is working well with Windows 7. The fact is if you stress it a litle bit, that is false.
The SD4 is still working with Win 7 if you use an external MIDI USB cable, like Roland UM-ONE."
I will probably need to upgrade the Ketron to V1.30 which is the last official firmware version from the Ketron site. Once I have tested the external interface, and heard back from Ketron regarding firmware update availability I'll update this thread.
Thanks again,
Burt
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RealBand
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Note that V1.31 is the version of firmware that is reported to work OK with Win7 and USB to SD4. It was unclear if V1.30 is required to work well with external USB to MIDI interfaces and the SD4 so that is what I'm testing initially and updating to V1.30 if needed to get the external USB interface working.
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RealBand
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Quote:
But it's pretty straight forward. SD4 is plugged into USB port on computer. Win7 identifies it as Ketron SD4 and that is what I select in the MIDI output devices in the RealBand list...
...I'll try sending the GM reset that the other reply mentions, but I don't see any other way to select the Ketron than what I'm doing at present.
It's difficult in a forum to describe what you're hearing. I do know for a fact that you must do a GM On every time you first open RB in Win 7/64. I have a Roland Sonic Cell and like you, my SC shows up in the list as a midi device and it's highlighted. That's all you can do, there's no other options there. Since I have a Roland device I select the GS option but you would select the GM one. If you don't then you hear all kinds of weird stuff because you're not hearing the correct patches they could be anything, and if the midi file has controllers in it like pitch bends then applying a pitch bend to a patch it wasn't designed for can indeed sound very weird including detuned. If you have RB send the "GM On" message and still get weird sounds then I guess it's on to plan B.
Wait for Mac to see this thread, he's a Ketron dealer and knows all about updates and bugs. If he doesn't because I know he's a very busy guy, then try sending him a PM.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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RealBand
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Joined: Jan 2009
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OP
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Thanks,
Based on the other feed back I had received I was able to get it working under Win7.
I'm using an external USB to MIDI interface instead of the SD4's built in USB. Bit of a pain as I now need to use the external power supply, one more thing to hook up:)
I had an issue with RealBand refusing to recognize the new external USB interface even though it was in the list of output devices. But PG support was able to offer a solution for that.
So now it is working via the external USB to MIDI interface. No more detune and mute sounds from the SD4. So far I have NOT had to send a GM mode command from RealBand. All the MIDIs appear to be working fine via the external interface even with the older SD4 firmware that it came with.
So I would say that it is the USB interface on my SD4 with the version of Firmware that is currently installed on the SD4. At least I have an easier workaround now than using the Virtual Machine with WinXP.
Regards,
Burt
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RealBand
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Excellent, glad you got it working. Maybe that GS On I have to use is just a Sonic Cell thing, just keep it in mind if you hear strange sounds on some midi file.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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