PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Off-Topic Band In A Box For Dummies......

Didn't the whole thing start as a reference to who invented SCUBA diving and the term, "frogman"?

Recognition of invention?

Cousteau et al...


--Mac

Here, the word frog is usually used after the F word. Again, I suggest that you not use it in front of any of my family. Usuages change over the years, and I do not want to discuss the origin of the word, I was making a point about something that may not be in your realm of experience.

There resides, at the local university, documents relating to my families post office, located at the end of the underground railroad. The main letter is written by a boy of 14 who told his cousin that they have the best postman his dad ever met working for them, and he has a nice bike and he is a N (word), and everyone loves this man, he is kind, gentle, and always smiling. Along with the letter are the daily notes from the family sawmill, dated 1850 or so, and it great fun to see how the mill made 500 board feet of oak plank for this church or that store, or for the construction of an office. The family had the sawmill, but then moved it on a train in 1897 to New Liskeard, due to the lack of good trees in the area north of Chatham. The assumption, of my son who is finishing his Phd in anthro this year, is that the N word was not considered derogatory in Canada in the early 1800s, but we would never use it now.....

There is also a description of using dynamite to split oak logs that were way to big to run through the saws. That to me is a great image...

Education is an on going process. I know little about the word Yanks. We are working on a tune ...Heres your Mule Gallop...in one of my bands and it says NC Regiment on it and seems to be dated to the Civil War era.....Dr. Hank the director says it was one of the most played numbers if Civil War recreation bands that he has lead over the last 30 years.....but was it a Northern Tune or Southern tune.

Like the Irish side of my family, they sing A Cushla Mine for Danny Boy, the Danny Boy thing was considered Catholic, like the wife. The priest would not let us marry in the church so we had a party at a nice hotel and did the deed there.

Takes a thick skin to live in this world, doesn't it?

Perhaps, but put yourself in another era, escaped, came to Canada, got a job as a postman, ride you bike, and everyone thinks you are great. 1849 I think. I would never suggest that there was not some form of discrimination here then, but I loved the sentiment of the boy who wrote about a guy he thought was great, probably had misconceptions based on media, for what it was, but it was ..overcome...

Google West Buxton.....Ontario...

I believe that the term 'Frog', as applied to anything French, came about due to the penchant for Napoleon's army to wear green uniforms. This was back in the day when black powder was used on the battlefield and it became extremely difficult for soldiers to determine who was the enemy and and who was an ally.

I've never heard the phrase "F****** Frog"...I suppose the aliteration gives it more oomph or something.

If the term 'Frog' is a derogatory one, then it must be some sort of national insult, rather than a religious, ethnic, or racial one. I, for one, love the French, as I know that we 'Yanks' wouldn't have won the revolution or had any chance in 1812-1814 without their help. I certainly haven't forgotten that our Statue of Liberty was a gift from the French. In fact, my daughter spent a year in France[on a grant] while in school. She really enjoyed that, and learned a lot. So I was under the impression that 'Frog' was pretty much akin to 'Yank' as far as national slang term was used.

Apparently, many believe that it's a rather unflattering epithet, as it has been used as an insult rather often, it would seem. OK...so be it.

However, there is this: "Again, I suggest that you not use it in front of any of my family. "

That it's interesting statement. I make it a point not to use derogatory ethnic, religious, or racial terms at any time for any reason, so if the term 'Frog' is a hate-word for the people of France, then I will add that to my growing list of off-limits words and phrases. Nevertheless, that particular sentence appears to contain some sort of threat...pray tell, what would happen to any unfortunate, ignorant cretin who make the mistake of uttering the foul word in front of John's family? Would there appear a knife or firearm? Would John's skills in unarmed hand-to-hand combat come quickly into play? Would the individual be stared down and humiliated?

Some of us Americans may have noticed in recent years a growing international trend for the most foul and derogatory words and phrases directed at our own country and government. So far I haven't shot anyone over this, although the desire to do so is very strong. I understand that name-calling shouldn't be the basis of violence, especially extreme violence.

So, summing up a bit: To many, 'Frog' is an insulting country-of-origin word, and should not be used. If any foolish knave were to use it in the company of French folks or Francophiles, they could come under some sort of attack, perhaps even a physical assault. I'll never be able to watch Gene Hackman in 'The French Connection' again without wanting to wash his mouth out with soap. 'First Frog' indeed!

To John C. -- You strike me from your posts here as a very intelligent and remarkably talented individual, who has an extensive and comprehensive education, as well as a wealth of experience. I will stick my already extruded neck out a bit farther and surmise that the education and experience did not come from a wealthy or priviledged background, but rather from a great deal of personal effort on your part. So it is with some humility that I may offer a bit of advice: try to thicken up your emotional epidermis a little. I do appreciate the education on the evil side of 'Frog' , and I will really and truly add it to my off-limits vocabulary. I thank you for that. You might have been a bit more pedantic in the process, and a bit less threatening, but I get the point nevertheless.

Now let us pause for a kumbaya moment..................

The Russian army uniform of the period was green.

The French wore white uniforms with blue or red coats.

My family...hmmm...my daughter,when her grade 10 class was told they were not permitted to carry purses in school proceeded to organize all her friends who spent the day carrying boxes of feminine products under their arms. She was the organizer. When the school informed them they had changed their minds, for I think the males were taken aback by the sight of such unmentionable items on public display. When at an assembly they were told they could once again able to carry purses and backpacks, she stood up and demanded in front of the embarassed administration a letter of apology for the degradation and humiliation, but until the letter was give to all the young women they would continue to carry publicly their products. Those at the assembly told me of the speech and she raised her voice, and pulled no punches. She is a bit more mellow at 18, but if anyone dare insult her, the word pit bull would come to mind.

As for my personal attidue, I was called a frog at work, and every time the channel surfing hit a french tv station the Fn Frog comment came out of some moron's mouth. My usual comment was, who cares what a bigot thinks.

Many theories abound about the origin of the word and it's association with the French people. I know my wife and daughter become emotional about those who the word in their face. My daughter Renée-Marie is a lovely girl, and will make her father happy when she's the last nester to leave. I can then pass the gas that I have to save up, and won't need to worry about a hole in my sock or having to wait until noon on weekends to try and master the piccalo part for Stars and Stripes forever on the tuba....

I always thought the French were referred to as Frogs because they ate frog's legs. There are worse things to be called I imagine, but if it's preceded by f*#§ing, its not going to be meant as a complement anyway.
A little rhyme from way back:
" Sticks and stones may hurt by bones, but words will never harm me."

The Light Infantry Chasseur, Chasseur a Cheval, of the French Army wore a uniform of universal green. Since there was a lot of these guys on the battlefield at any given time[since they were the most cost-effective soldiers] there was a lot of green there. But you are correct Mac: armies of that era had a perplexing number of colorful and distinctive uniforms. The armies of the Republic during the American Civil War displayed a large and interesting variety of uniforms as well. There is far less variety in current military attire..

Well....I'm truly sorry that anyone has to bear the insults of the ignorant and bigoted. It's been an educational experience learning about the drogatory nature of 'Frog', so I will certainly refrain from it's use in the future.

As an interesting side-note, I now consider myself to truly be a 'gringo', and find absolutely no insult in the use of that word to describe me. Most people of Western European desent here in the US southwest wear that label with some comfort and without malice toward the user. When my younger daughter was in Hawaii for a year of mission work she was often referred to as a 'hoale' [howlie] i.e. a white person. She did not find the term too insulting per se, but might have been distressed if the term were prefixed by 'F***ing'. In any event, it appears that intent and context are the culprits in these kinds of labels.

Certainly best to avoid their use completely...

John C. --thanks for the enlightenment on the cultural aspects of that particular word. It appears that ignorance rather than a thick skin is what is at play for me. The uniform explanation is but one of many attempts to pin down the origins of amphibian reference, and others abound.

Just shows we are never too old to learn something important about others.