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Hello Forum again. I hope I don't screw this up this time! I decided to take the advise of other forum members and just post 1 song at a time, especially when soliciting feedback. I also narrowed down my selection by picking originals that utilize BIAB midi or real tracks. I wasn't sure which song is "best" because I may like one song for it's unique style in Jazz and another for its unique style in Country or Rock. As I said on another post, I like to dabble in a lot of styles but I definitely am not that great at any one style. So here it goes. "Meet Me By The Mistletoe" is a simple original old style Jazz ballad. I also love the new jazz original compositions of others on the forum. Anyway, I played the piano and string parts on song and did lead and background vocals. I tried not to overplay and keep my solos simple and melodic. I am kind of rusty and I probably need to redo some parts. I am also not a good vocalist so to tackle a Jazz ballad is definitely outside of my comfort zone. I utilized the Jazz Ballad real tracks 18 (Rhythm section and real tracks 19 (lead instruments-Trumpet) in this case. Thanks again for any advise or tips you can give me. My only motivation is to have fun and get better. It is kind of like golf. How can you keep having fun if you at least don't get somewhat better in time. The details and lyrics are listed below. Meet Me By The Mistletoe Genre-Jazz Balled Rod Moore-Lead and Background vocals True Pianos Kompakt Large String Ensemble Neil Swainson-Acoustic Bass set 18 RT 481 Oliver Gannon-Rhythm Guitar set 18 RT 484 Don Clark-Trumpet soloist set 19 RT 495 Craig Scott-Drums Real Drums set 3 JazzBrushesSticks
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Well Welcome back! Definitely an impressive debut. You won't find me commenting too much on technical aspects of plug-in use simply because my hearing is not great anymore. I go by what I hear, and this is very nice and to me, well mixed. The only thing that jumped out was the ending - a tad rough/abrupt - at least according to my ears. The tune was smooth, the ending should be as well. Moore and more - liked that - good CD title . . . . .if it isn't already.  Looked forward to hearing the next one. Cheers - Ian
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Thanks Ian for the nice encouragement. You are exactly right on the ending. In fact, on quite a few of my songs, I've struggled with the right BIAB ending. In some cases, we all end at different times. The end of "Santa needs a bailout for Christmas" has that effect. In some cases,it gives the song a human feel. The end of the song I just mentioned has all the realtracks sounding like a live band just messing around at the end. I hurried and put a long piano run at the end too! I liked that effect in that case but I do need to experiment with alternate endings more.
Another thing that happens is I record the paino as a midi part with a softsynth. Sometimes rendering audio will cause the sustain of the last note to end prematurely.
That is something else I have to figure out.
Thanks again for the great tips.
RodM
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I like it. Nice warm snuggly romantic Christmas song. Agree with Ian on the ending. 
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Thanks Josie. Yes indeed, I'll have to experiment with some alternate endings. I was checking the forum for tips on intros and endings. I may also just put in a solo piano outro too. Thanks again for listening.
RodM
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Great song! I really like your arrangement and style here, outstanding. Your vocals are also very good, as are your lyrics. Great chops BTW.
I also agree about the ending.
You mentioned that when you render you lose the ends of your softsynths. That may be do to the fact you are rendering exactly to the end of the song and not catching the audio tails. Try rendering to a couple of measures after the end of the song and I’ll bet you will get the effect you are looking for.
Two thumbs up
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Wow. This song has so much promise but you really need to spend more time on the lyric structure. Sadly, it's all over the place - and I say this with the utmost respect because I feel you have a good song here.! You have no rhyme scheme here which stops the song from flowing as it should. I know there are those who feel that a writer should not be tied to rhyming schemes as it limits them somewhat. But i'm completely in the other camp on this one - and so are the vast majority of the greatest writers of the last century. With a little effort this could be so easily fixed. an ABCB rhyme scheme would seem to work: Christmas Eve by a fireplace Watching softly falling SNOW : This should be the rhyme line in each verse. In this yuletide memory with my love tonight Wassail’s brewing on the stove:: use the "meet me by the mistletoe" line here to rhyme with SNOW Christmas carols on the radio Twinkling lights on the tree:: Change this line to rhyme with mistletoe. In this yuletide memory be my love tonight Meet me by the mistletoe Christmas time can be romantic There’s a magic in the AIR:: Again, this would be your easiest rhyme line All alone just the two of us Let’s make a memory ...."That only we can SHARE" just a thought lol. A Christmas memory We don’t have to go out anywhere You can stay right here with me:: change this line to rhyme with "mistletoe" In this yuletide memory be my love tonight Meet me by the mistletoe Solo Christmas time can be romantic There’s a magic in the air All alone just the two of us Let’s make a memory A Christmas memory Don’t need presents, don’t need anything All I want is here with me :: again, change to rhyme with mistletoe. You will be my everything be my love tonight Meet me by the mistletoe Make a Christmas memory Be my love tonight Meet me by the mistletoe There are plenty of rhymes to choose from: Blow, Glow, Aglow, To and Fro, Show, Snow. This is said constructively and with respect and of course you are free to ignore me entirely. Good luck with the song.
Music is what our feelings sound like.
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Thanks Mario and Mr. Songman for the reviews and comments. They are really helpful.
To Mario,
Your comments mean a lot to me. I've listened to your compositions and appreciate you superb writing, arranging production and musicianship on all the many instruments you play! I am going to try to experiment with different rendering techniques. I use Sonar 8.5.3 and I select all when I export to a .wav or .mp3. I may have in the global options not to play the effect trails (saving CPU). Also, I can render the midi track to audio first, then export. I may also look at controller values or note values. Too bad I can't place a fermata on the last note, but SONAR's notation is limited. I'll try your suggestion and some of these other settings and techniques too.
To Mr. Songman,
Great Critique! I was briefly in Taxi and I never got this detailed of a critique on lyrics, ever! They are a good organization and perhaps I should have kept submitting material. I admit that I am quite a bit weaker at lyrical structure than I am at music. Your opinion is very valued because I also know that your music has been published. I never have. I will give your ideas a shot! I also wanted to say how much I enjoy your playing styles, presentation, production and variety of music.
I went from a Roland VS-880 to a DAW and have really enjoyed it. It was a learning curve when I switched and I still curse at my computer sometimes when it crashes! Did you ever make the leap to a DAW yet?
Thanks,
Rod M
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By the way, this is truly and awesome forum. Thanks for all the suggestions and support!
RodM
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This is a really good Christmas season song. The backing track is quite well put together and the vocal is working very well. I would double up the vocal here and there and add some harmonies. That would put it (further) over the top. Dang, the music reminds me of Guaraldi's snoopy stuff -- which is mighty high praise.
Thanks for sharing, it is wonderful.
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Rod, thanx for the kind words.
I also use Sonar, now X1C, and even if you do render midi to wav you still have to extend the range a couple of measures to be safe. At least that is the way I always have done it; hey I’m old so if it ain’t broke I don’t try to fix it.
My technique for exporting the song to wav is to select all and bounce to track. That gives me the entire mix on one wav track. Then sometimes I tweak that wav until I like the final results and if I use effects on the track I will apply the effects to it. Then I export the wav to a 44.1 16bit wav; I record at 32 bit. Finally I open Audacity, import the wav and export it to a MP3. This may not be the optimum way of doing things but it works for me.
I hope this helps.
Life is short so make sure you spend as much time as possible on the Internet arguing with strangers.
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Hi Kevin,
Thank you so much for the comments! I have some background vocals on just the chorus but they are pretty low in volume. I also will look at a chorus effect. Either a track doubler or a audio plugin chorus on particular sections. Also, that is a HUGE compliment comparing my piano skills with Guaraldi! I sure wish I could play that well. I always loved the piano soundtracks from Charlie Brown. I grew up on that stuff! The real tracks of Oliver Gannon,Don Clark, Niel Swanson, Craig Scott sure made it easy to me to play along. Miles Black is also the keyboardist that I listened to on that RT style to also get ideas on chord voicings. I would have also used Miles buy, hey, I at least have to play something on my song! BIAB is a great teaching tool too.
By the way, I listened to all 12 songs on your soundclick page. You are great singer-soungwriter. Your stuff is such a great mix of classic rock, country, folk, and americana plus many other styles. You have a good vocal style too. After reading your lyrics, I realized how weak I am on my lyrics. Also, your use of BIAB sounds so seamless to your playing and singing too. If you wouldn't have mentioned you used BIAB tracks, it sounds like a touring band that has played together for years.
Anyway, thanks again!
RodM
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Hi Mario,
Thanks again for your comments. Sometime, I would like to talk to you about your experience with SONAR X1C, but that probably belongs on another forum. I have to be careful here that I don't evolve this thread into a tips and tricks thread but I do find it interesting on the differences in processes for mixing and mastering. I am going to try what you suggested. I tried to "mix and master" in one step. I also ran my master bus through the following chain 10 band EQ-MB compresser_stereo imager-limiter. With each stage I tried not to exceed 0db (peak) to the next stage. The limiter would attenuate up to 3db. After mixing down, I used sound forge to "normalize" to -12db RMS. I may search through the threads to see everyone's techniques that way. For now, I will mix down to a single stereo track as you suggested.
Thanks again and Happy Thanksgiving.
Rod M
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Nice holiday feel. Great song, vocal and production. Thanks for sharing!
My TunesPsalm 57:7 My heart, O God, is steadfast, my heart is steadfast; I will sing and make music.
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Hi Rod,
Glad you took the comments in the constructive spirit they were meant. I think the song has great potential.
And thank you too for your kind words and taking the time to listen.
I am now the proud owner of Reaper, which I really haven't had the time to delve into properly yet, but I'm sure it's the way to go!
All the best
Martin
Music is what our feelings sound like.
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Hi PGFantastic,
Thanks so much for listening and your comments. I am amazed by how prolific you are how great and uplifting the messages are in your lyrics. I am also impressed by all the genres you write in. I also wish I had your voice. It fits so well on your songs. I always have to be careful that my voice doesn't distract from the song.I hope you have a wonderful Christmas and a great 2012.
Thanks again,
RodM
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Hi Martin,
Thanks again. I always appreciate any help I can get! This is all just for fun for me and I am having a blast! Good luck with Reaper. I am using Sonar 8.5.3 and I am re-evaluating my host now. I've considered Reaper. I'll be anxious to hear about your experience.
Good luck!
RodM
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