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OP
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My vsti will play back already recorded data perfectly but I cant hear the vsti as Im playing the keyboard. What software samplers are people using sucessfully. Which ones work and which ones dont work? Im usung the PG MME drivers as of now. Couldnt get asio to work reliably. does this make a difference?
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How is keyboard connected to computer? Is that MIDI device chosen as input?
Is the VSTi synth installed as default synth (playing all tracks)
Is MIDI thru enabled?
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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OP
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Midi thru is track specific. input is seen on the piano roll the vsti is not hte default but chosen individually.
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Rharv is our resident expert on RB. Answer his questions specifically please. Also ASIO does make a difference. Who's ASIO are you using? What VSTi are you using?
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Let's try this route, when you hit a key on the keyboard does it show up on the piano keys at top of screen? If so MIDI is coming in and the problem lies in your VSTi setup. If not MIDI is not getting in.
Is there a VSTi synth in the default slot at all? If not, try putting one there and see if you hear anything then.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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The thing is first get ASIO working somehow. It's required to play a soft synth in real time.
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Why do you guys keep saying that? ASIO is not required to play a soft-synth. Sure the synth will react faster, but it isn't required. .. and 'real time' is relevant. There is still a delay with ASIO, just much smaller (usually). So neither is in actual real time. First problem (in my eyes) is figuring out why he hears nothing at all. Getting it to react quicker is secondary.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Agree, On some machines MME or WDM is all you need. I ran in RB with MME for a long time cause it loads my old system up in ASIO
MME may be slower but it is very stable,and solid.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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Quote:
Why do you guys keep saying that? ASIO is not required to play a soft-synth. Sure the synth will react faster, but it isn't required. .. and 'real time' is relevant. There is still a delay with ASIO, just much smaller (usually). So neither is in actual real time. First problem (in my eyes) is figuring out why he hears nothing at all. Getting it to react quicker is secondary.
With my Ampeg SVX & IK interface I run ASIO with 2ms latency. Are you saying that a good keyboard player would be happy with the latency of WDM?
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This article was updated 2/2011 see the bottom so it's not as dated as it may first appear. Interesting read.Take note of the 30ms latency introduced by the K mixer used in WDM. http://www.cakewalk.com/DevXchange/article.aspx?aid=114
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Reread my post.
Someone said you "need" ASIO (which the OP hasn't had succes with yet). Not true.
It will be latent, and will be an annoyance, but it's a bridge that doesn't have to be crossed yet for a 'no sound' issue. One step at a time to troubleshoot issues.
Adding in the ASIO complexity would have added new issues without resolving the first one. That's all I'm saying; fix the routing issue and latency will be the next step. Otherwise we spend time dealing with the new ASIO somplexity without ever having solved the original problem. I'm a step-by-step guy. ASIO use was coming in the long run (I knew that), but not 'necessary' at this point in the problem solving.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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I guess Bob it's just a matter of personal trouble shooting habits. If he's any kind of player not going to be much good getting sound from the thru channel if he can't get ASIO to work after. There's no question in my mind that the lack of sound is a very basic issue. Getting ASIO to work right and consistently is not. Chicken or egg.
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Right now he hears nothing. Chances are changing to ASIO will not change that. So I figgered first things first.. Like I said; I knew MME latency issue was coming soon (and then tackle ASIO), but didn't want to lose focus of the original problem.
Just two different ways of approaching the issue I guess. If he read he 'has to use ASIO', he could compound the problem quickly. Whereas if we got it working first in MME, then got ASIO working later, we would have successes along the way (encouragement). Yeah, that's how I think ..
As it is, it looks like he left anyway. We're discussing this more than he is. Oh Well.
Last edited by rharv; 11/27/11 03:32 PM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Am I missing something again? Don't you have to have ASIO input monitoring on in order to hear your playing? I've been using hardware synths for over a year now and can't remember about the input monitoring thing but I thought that's what it was with ASIO.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Chiming in here.
MME will allow play through 'live' but with much more latency than is acceptable to most musicians.
rharv is right in that there is probably some midi data throughput issue to sort out first. I think rharv's suggestion to look to see if the keyboard keys are lighting up is a good place to start. Many VSTi interfaces will also have a fake LED of some type to let you know they are receiving midi data.
So, to sort out the 'live' signal chain, it does have to be established that the VSTi module is getting midi data as an 'end-to-end' process first.
So far, the OP of the post hasn't come back here.
Here's how I would attack the problem:
1. Establish that the VSTi receives midi data through live keying of the input controller keyboard. This is independent of the audio driver being used.
1a. Some hosts require that the midi input on the card be 'enabled/armed' for recording. For my DAW, each audio or midi input available to the DAW should be enabled, and then 'armed' if you want that input data to be sent to the midi destination. If I don't do that 'arming', I can see the midi data blipping the input on the GUI of the DAW, but no sound happens.
1b. This can be a port issue, a midi channel issue, midi send issue from the controller keyboard, etc.
2. Go ahead and try the installed audio driver first, once it's established that midi data is being received at the VSTi - I think that was rharv's point; don't throw in an audio driver swap until this other midi throughput is established first.
3. If unacceptable latency occurs, THEN go for ASIO. As it so happens, this is almost a foregone conclusion, as I don't know of anyone yet who can use WDM or MME drivers for live playthrough. Just too hard to 'play ahead' and wait for the sound.
BTW, look back through the forums to around 2004/5 time frame (if it still exists) and you'll see I was one of the first ASIO evangelists here at PG. In fact, the lack of ASIO support at the time caused me to wander astray from the PG fold - I got so hooked on live playthrough of very fun VSTi that I gave up on PG products for DAW, even though I rocked it with PTPA before hand. But, once you get the bug of all of the very cool VSTi that weigh nothing and sound nearly as good as the original hardware, it's very very hard to go back to not having live playthrough capability. I still have a blast pretending I'm Keith Emerson using some freeware analog synth VSTi (minimogue VA is still my favorite - simple but with meat!).
-Scott
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I agree with this Scott but isn't there a difference between simply playing the keyboard/softsynth thru the program and not recording it vs monitoring yourself while you're recording? Hearing yourself during recording requires ASIO input monitoring, right?
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Quote:
I agree with this Scott but isn't there a difference between simply playing the keyboard/softsynth thru the program and not recording it vs monitoring yourself while you're recording? Hearing yourself during recording requires ASIO input monitoring, right?
Bob
Hearing yourself during recording shouldn't require ASIO, but it does require input monitoring, which can be done with WDM/MME if I recall correctly - it just might not be ideal due to potential latency issues. I find that when I get latency over 6 mS or so, then my ability to hit timing cues and 'perform' while recording suffers.
However, thinking back to the days when I used PG products, I was monitoring the built-in soundfont synths in my SB Live card, not VSTi, so I can't say that my above statement is true or not. I honestly can't recall specifically.
However, had I some ability to monitor VSTi while recording with WDM/MME, I probably wouldn't have jumped ship. I caught the bug of real-time VSTi monitoring with Cmuzys, which is a DAW that comes free with the cover DVD of Computer Music magazine.
-Scott
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Quote:
However, thinking back to the days when I used PG products, I was monitoring the built-in soundfont synths in my SB Live card, not VSTi, so I can't say that my above statement is true or not. I honestly can't recall specifically.
Yeah, those are considered hardware synths because they're built into the soundcard so not a problem. I'm at work right now so I can't check it until I get home but I think I'm right.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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