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Quote:
Scott,
Quote:
The average user can get by without making a DAW purchase whatsoever, as long as they bought an entry-level audio card.
So we actually DO agree! Until you’ve totally exhausted what any freebie DAW can do, you shouldn’t even think about an upgrade!
I wouldn't say completely that we agree. My position is that the way PG have chosen to ignore requests to make ASIO work going back to 2005 and perhaps earlier, and with the related benefits of working ASIO, that they have put themselves behind the freebie programs as it pertains to the simple record/edit/process/save procedure.
None of those other programs do what RB and BIAB do for composition - that is a different topic. As it pertains to 'DAW-ness' I would say it's a good 8 years behind the times.
-Scott
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Flatfoot, the reason for many is that RB still has a few struggles with some VSTi's. That for me is the ONLY reason. I hope that the next version brings that to a screeching halt.
There are only two things i want to see updated in RB, one is the VSTi thing, and a more user friendly automation system with a node based GUI.
Fix those and them incremental stablity and refinements. Slowly refine the looping tool, and the audio tools. Add some more really cool RTs.
Precisely my problems with RB. I don't like the workflow, I don't like the interface, I don't like being limited with VSTs. (BIAB, having the same limitations, is a different beastie -- I use that to prepare stuff for my DAW {Reaper}.)
I also can't seem to configure ASIO for the dang thing no matter what I do. Sigh.
I'm with Thom on this one!
Life is short so make sure you spend as much time as possible on the Internet arguing with strangers.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Scott, Quote:
I wouldn't say completely that we agree.
I guess I shouldn't either.
When folks ask about a DAW, I assume they don't want to know about every "nuance" in every DAW that they should consider.
It's kind of like the old joke about someone asking what time it is, and then you tell them how to build a watch.
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I saw some nice watches in Switzerland. More than I ever hauled in in a year for one though. A five buck timex is all I need. I have a watch, and I often look all over the place for it only to find that I'm wearing it. Then I go through the same thing with my wallet. Teeth. Glasses. Hat. Cane. I go for the door about an hour before I have to leave. I find my watch first so I know when to panic.
Anyway, I made a cd of tunes for my Mom, and I used band in a box. The Audacity.
I should have bought one of those DAW things, but I understand that they come with ASIO and that's something that I fear. And a learning curve that steepens every year. Sigh. Poor Mom, her son can't even learn how to drag and drop to reapHer and sparkle up his tracks, he just serves them up raw with a fade in and out.
Next thing someone's going to make me learn this flatpicking thing. I'm sure my brother got his hands slapped for picking.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Visicalc=spreadsheet
Google docs spreadsheet=spreadsheet
Which one would you use today to do a calculation on a group of numbers given that both are able to perform the task?
Btw one of them is free.
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Quote:
Scott,
Quote:
I wouldn't say completely that we agree.
I guess I shouldn't either.
When folks ask about a DAW, I assume they don't want to know about every "nuance" in every DAW that they should consider.
It's kind of like the old joke about someone asking what time it is, and then you tell them how to build a watch.
We are obviously not going to agree here as to what means nuance. Playthrough capability of soft instruments and effects has evolved into standard fare even for free products. That's not nuance. It's part of expected work with digital audio in software of the digital audio workstation variety.
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I like Biab and Rb like they are ,and have no problem using what they have . Other functions they don't have are readily available in multiple free DAW's . Everyone talks about how other company's software is so great ,but they all fall incredibly short when it comes to generating music . So an upgraded Biab is essential if you want software to make music with .
If generating music ain't yo thang use something else ,maybe you could play all the parts and see what sounds better. I stink on all instruments except guitar although I have played bass, drums,piano,sax ,flute and harmonica in bands. This is why I LOVE Biab and RB for what they do ! Sure any software is worth making better ,but if you know how to make some other software preform a certain task better use it ! As long as PG can make software that can spit out music like it does , I'm sold and will update anytime I have the money ! Let the music speak for itself !
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All true, and Tommyc makes a great point. When i said what i did above, or er ... on the other page, i want to be clear, i still use RB most of the time. One thing that gets forgotten here in the ASIO debate, is that when RB or BiaB for that matter say MME they actually mean WDM drivers. Which are far faster than the old MME standard, and at time rival ASIO performance.
I have seen raging debates over the two on the Sonar and other forums. WDM is a decent driver for many situations. ASIO does have some features that are great, like low latency monitoring, but other than that WDM is fine.
I was forced to choose just one application it would be BiaB, with RB attached at the hip. It is okay to move to another app for finishing if needed, but not always necessary.
Sure I want the three things we talked about (VSTi, ASIO, and Automation nodes) to be upgraded, but until then i am getting it done.
AS far as work flow goes there are 10 opinions for every 10 people as to what is the best work flow. RBs is real good for me. A couple actual work flow upgrades i would love aside from the other things are a bit more stability in audio surgery, if you select an area, and hold ctrl and slide it it is not real accurate, as some are, but still very usable if you take care. click and drag an area is shaky as well (related to the last point. You have to hold real still at the beginning or it miss starts the area. These type things are not big, but just part of the slow evolution process.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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This whole debate should point back to the title of the thread. BIAB/RB are unparalleled for song composition/backing tools. No argument there. Some basic recording and editing aspects are also included. The title of the thread, to remind everyone, is: Decent DAWs for free. Rewind all the way up there to that title, every one of the words in the title. Working on digital audio. These days, it seems from my perspective, that includes ASIO support. My latest sound card I bought (Tascam US-800) doesn't even show up in my list of devices except for the ASIO driver, in the DAW software I use. Non DAW use of the card uses it's WDM drivers, and the DAW software seems to only recognize ASIO. This is right in the manual for the device on how it functions, on page 12 - here: http://tascam.com/content/downloads/products/207/us800_om.pdf Expand the image in the left column of page 12 and you'll see TASCAM's internal driver routing. I don't even have a choice to use WDM in DAW software with this device. When I say that this is rudimentary functionality for DAW, this is the kind of perspective that exists out there in the 'other than PG' DAW world. This isn't a 'PG Elite' view, it comes from the basics outside of PG.
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I understand your point, that almost all systems suggest ASIO, but the fact is that is not actually the standard, and that may change over the next few years. With Win 7 , and now Win 8, Mac, and even linux coming on. other standards will rise up.
I have the US 800, running in XP, and i use WDM drivers in RB, and ASIO in Sonar, and MTS. Big advantage, as i can have both open!!!
I read page 12, and it shows both WDM, and ASIO driver connection in the diagram.
ASIO drivers are good, just saying that there are alternatives. Wrap the WDM driver in ASIO4All. Winsound witn Win 7.
Actually RB has been running so smooth in WDM, i had forgotten until the other night that i had switched back from ASIO to slightly lower the CPU usage.
I agree that we need to see these thing addressed in time, but these are very useable programs.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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Quote:
I understand your point, that almost all systems suggest ASIO, but the fact is that is not actually the standard, and that may change over the next few years. With Win 7 , and now Win 8, Mac, and even linux coming on. other standards will rise up.
I have the US 800, running in XP, and i use WDM drivers in RB, and ASIO in Sonar, and MTS. Big advantage, as i can have both open!!!
I read page 12, and it shows both WDM, and ASIO driver connection in the diagram.
ASIO drivers are good, just saying that there are alternatives. Wrap the WDM driver in ASIO4All. Winsound witn Win 7.
Actually RB has been running so smooth in WDM, i had forgotten until the other night that i had switched back from ASIO to slightly lower the CPU usage.
I agree that we need to see these thing addressed in time, but these are very useable programs.
I'm using Win7. I referred to the diagram because it shows ASIO hooked through the DAW, and WDM through multi-media use. Perhaps I misunderstood the diagram.
I expected to have a choice in my DAW. I didn't - it's only ASIO.
Nobody said they weren't usable in this entire thread. The OP asked for Decent DAW for free. We don't know if he has RB or not. Everyone assumes that he does. I'm thinking that since he asked this question, he doesn't have it.
BTW, do you use playthrough of soft synths and/or effects? What latency are you running if so? I find that I can't go over about 5 or 6 mS without it affecting my brain's connection to my fingers.
-Scott
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