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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Journeyman
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morphine time ? ...AGAIN ? 
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Ah, once or twice a week. I'm under control I guess. I went most of the way to the wrong place when I got back from the brink, so I have eternal fire on my legs from the hips down. The rest of me is going to burn one way or the other. I'm not having the kiln fired up yet, I've got more posts to go yet!
My friend takes 200 supplements a day. Takes hours. How he's alive I don't know.
I showed him mine. LOL. Not fair eh?
That guy would inhale snails breath if I told him it was suggested to prolong life.
I've nothing against that, but I have garlic, butter and parsley. Sprinkle with parmesean and fresh pepper and enjoy!
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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The Band in A Box "Drag 'n Drop" feature is MUCH faster than recording from sync...
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
The Band in A Box "Drag 'n Drop" feature is MUCH faster than recording from sync...
--Mac
A gentle reminder that in order to do that a PG Music product must be installed on the host computer. I'm pretty sure that's not always available to the OP, in addition to the fact that he's working on a hardware DAW where it is not possible at all.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I do it all the time from my USB drive. Sometimes it is necessary to D 'n D to an Explorer window. Then, of course, if the studio is using Macintosh, I first have to convert each wav track to AIFF format and do that on the PC, then do simple file exchange.
Sure it would be nice to have Sync, but until we do...
Git-R-Done
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2005
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Quote:
At one time, I got the wrong impression that when you open a BIAB file in RB, the tracks were "frozen" thus re-gen was not required.
This is one of those very tricky little things Ed. If you open a Biab file with RT's in Real Band those tracks are regenerated and then those tracks show up in blue in the first 8 tracks. Blue tracks are regular Biab tracks and will get regenerated every time. One little point I'm not sure of is if you froze those tracks first in Biab, then opened the file in RB are they still regenerated? This is a fine distinction between opening a Biab file and using the D&D function. I know you can D&D any Biab generated audio track to RB and nothing gets regenerated as long as they're not going to those dedicated blue Biab tracks. I never use those tracks and there's an option in the menu to move those to the bottom never to be seen again. All the other tracks are no different than those tracks would be in Cubase. Once you've recorded (or generated) something on a non-Biab track, nothing changes unless you specifically want to edit it. Another confusing point here is you can still generate parts on a regular RB (not blue) track by selecting a style, right clicking anywhere on the track and following the menu. Nothing is regenerated when you do that unless you do the procedure again.
It does take much longer to generate the same RT tracks in RB than it does in Biab. Someone said it doesn't but that's not true unless there's something wrong with my setup. The regen time depends on how long the song is and how many RT's are being used. Example, as a test I created a 55 bar song in Biab that was all RT's, 5 instruments plus a RT soloist going for 5 choruses. For some reason the RT soloists take at least twice as much time to generate as a regular RT. On my setup Biab started playing the song in 6 or 7 seconds. But to add more confusion it really had not finished generating, Biab has a system that allows the song to start playing while it finishes the generation in the background. That same song with 6 RT's literally took 7 minutes in RB. Yes that's minutes not seconds. It's a huge difference. Just doing one short RT, like 32 bars of one track only is fine, that takes 10-15 seconds or so but a whole 200 bar complex all RT song? Fuggettaboutit. You can go to lunch while RB generates that.
For me anyway I rarely use a Biab file to start things in RB. RB is just another standard DAW with some cool extras like generating Biab parts. I may start with a midi file or I may start with some live recorded tracks I did using my DPS16 digital recorder. But, I certainly see the usefullness of starting with a Biab created song too just don't create it in RB if you're using a bunch of RT's. After I have the bed tracks then like you described in your very good post I'll create a Biab solo using a bunch of takes and cutting and pasting, adding some Real Drums percussion tracks, maybe create an 8 bar RT guitar part, whatever just like you do. At that point I'm only working with one track at a time so the longer generation time doesn't matter much.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
I do it all the time from my USB drive.
Of course you do. I've done it myself on a friend's system. "Expert" forgets stone basics.
Now it occurs to me to wonder whether it will run from an 8 Gb SD card . . .
Last edited by Ryszard; 01/10/12 11:30 PM.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 38
Enthusiast
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jazzmammal, I'm still digesting the new features in BIAB. Thanks for your informative post. Seems my instinct was right. I would be doing all my generating in BIAB and do the comping in RB. I just need to do some comparison on the editing track abilities for my DAW vs RB. The great thing is, I can listen to BIAB tracks in sync with tracks on my DAW using RB. Now, I don't have to start recording into my DAW until much later in the project process. I start with scratch track vocal and guitar recorded to a metronome. Then I would generate BIAB tracks, 2 or 3 styles and record them as stereo tracks into the DAW. I would then visually sync them for the next session. We decide on a style, record a new scratch vocal and guitar tracks if any. Record BIAB tracks from the selected style into individual tracks for the next session. As the project progresses, every time changes were made, I've had to re-record BIAB tracks individually. Now that RB can sync, I don't have to record into the DAW until I'm quite certain that all changes to the backing tracks are all done. Until all the tracks are recorded into the DAW, I can just sync the computer to my DAW hear both. It would certainly make life easier on my part.  I have to admit, I'm not looking forward to LEARNING a new DAW . . . Real Band . . . new trick for an old dog. Thanks Ed
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I'm a pro musician but not a pro recording engineer. I just putz around with my home studio and do some decent stuff but certainly not at your level.
Real Band is unique. On one hand it pales in comparison to Cubase, Sonar and other DAWs when it comes to editing, automation, drawing volume envelopes, that kind of stuff. But for basic recording, using multiple VST's both synths and effects, multiple output ports etc it's equivalent. Where it will really grab you is the Biab functions. You have to learn to think outside of the normal DAW box. Say you have your basic bass, drums, guitar, keyboard tracks and maybe some scratch vocals. You're not happy with the guitar part. Pick an empty track, right click and generate a different guitar part. Go to the next track down, pick a different style and do yet another different part, do it again for the third track down. Now play back the song and play with the track mute buttons and cycle back and forth between those different guitar parts and you can easily decide if any one of those might work or maybe parts of each one can work in different parts of the song.
Another thing, say your in studio bass player did the basic song ok but the groove part under a solo is not so hot. You find a Real Track bass part that fits that pretty well. We both know that even if the tone isn't exactly the same you have the equipment you need to fix that in the mix so you just may plug in that RT to cover for the live player then bring him back in. With RB you can do so much creating of parts using all the styles it's mind boggling.
RB has 48 tracks so you can do that kind of experimentation using all of them. Of course you already know if you tried one part and don't like it delete it so you keep your track view area as clean as possible. You can create different parts using different styles and instruments on the same track over and over by just deleting one and generating another. I do this all the time with the drums. I may generate four different drum or percussion tracks and then mix, match, cut and paste them all over the song. Another thing don't be hung up on just using the Real Tracks. If you have high quality synths available some of the Biab midi parts are killer. The cool thing about midi parts is they generate in just a couple of seconds, no waiting. Much easier to experiment with those. Most of the Biab midi drum parts were done with a live drummer on a midi kit. I will run a Biab midi drum part through Jamstix using my favorite Yamaha Studio Drums kit and it sounds great. That Yamaha kit sounds almost identical to a lot of the Real Drums tracks. I will use midi drums for certain song specific punches or fills and mix them with a RD part. Sounds pretty darn good for a demo if not for a final commercial production.
Bob
Last edited by jazzmammal; 01/12/12 08:03 AM.
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 23
Enthusiast
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Quote:
It would make more sense to me to just export the MIDI data to cubase. There really isn't any good reason to run to the two programs in sync that I can see.
That exporting is done with the Drag & Drop feature in BIAB. I just watched a great on video in the video section here that explains it very well.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 550
Journeyman
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Journeyman
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Posts: 550 |
Ok, for those here who seem sceptical of why anyone would want or benefit from having a feature to allow BIAB to "sync with an external sequencer, heres one:
I use BIAB for the Mac, but since I wanted to be able to experiment with creating melodies and chord changes in a flexible and easily changed manner, more than a year ago I purchased and tried out REALBAND, even though I am a mac user.
I really wanted Realband to be the go-to tool for creating new stuff since it allowed in theory one to work on one melodic MIDI part while
also experimenting with chord change ideas.
I come from a jazz/fusion/prog background so playing around with novel harmonies is de-rigeur. Three chord tricks these aint !.
But after giving REALBAND a sympathetic go, I ended up rejecting it, getting a refund and going back to my Mac based BIAB.
Reasons were buggyness, a poor user interface, and basically I just missed my REAL DAWs - ie Logic and Ableton. RealBand just doesn't cut it.
Not only this - but the way chords and arrangements are built in REALBAND are - maybe for very good reasons - different in how one does things in BIAB, and i liked the non-linear way one arranges a song and structure in BIAB - even if its a bit crude.
So heres the thing. BIAB on the mac generates brilliant parts, and it CAN of course control my sequencers of choice - currently Ableton. But only with BIAB as the "master" not the slave.
This almost works ok ish it allows me to work on a melody in MIDI in the DAW, while using BIAB to try out chord change ideas ON THE FLY !
But heres the rub. Currently I can control the DAW with my MIDI melody from BIAB. This means bringing the BIAB window into the foreground and clicking the BIAB Start or Stop buttons.
But although this is fine when one is tweaking the chord changes and arrangement, it SUCKS when one is tweaking the MIDI melody one is working on inside the DAW.
I want to be able to stop and start the BIAB arrangement while having the DAW window in the foreground.
This is the most natural way of working, and lets one easily work on the ( in my case quite complex ) melody line while
hearing how the melody fits the current chord changes.
All this talk of exporting MIDI and audio into the DAW is all very well. But ONLY once ones ideas are FINALISED.
While i am on this topic can I also beg the BIAB PC music team to at least built in some of the remote control CONDUCTOR features
that WINDOWS users get ?
why oh why are Mac users always given second best ?
Last edited by nonchai; 09/04/12 05:16 AM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 550
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 550 |
Quote:
John Conley,
I understand your general point of view. Why "sync" capability . . . ??
For users with "studio-in-my-computer" set up, in a room with computer speakers or low end monitors, "sync" capability is probably not needed.
The "sync" capability is how a music software "plays nice" with the rest of the world. Commercial studio owners, engineers and producers are creatures of habit. This is true for a small commercial project studio like mine or a much larger studios catering to large record labels. It doesn't matter if the DAW is Pro Tools on a Mac or Cubase on a PC. I can take my laptop and my BIAB on the Audiofile HD to ANY studio and I can "play nice" with whats there. All I need is some digital input into the studio system.
Please understand that at a commercial level, only the raw instrument tracks without effects or dynamics are needed. Effects and dynamic processing is one of the many tools used in the mixing process. This is why I take the instrument track from BIAB into DAW separately. This is where "sync capability" is desirable. If BIAB was sync capable, I just have to solo 2 instruments, pan one full left and the other full right, arm my DAW to record, press play on BIAB and the DAW will record "in sync". It doesn't matter if the DAW is Pro Tools on a Mac or a stand alone DAW like my Roland VS2480.
As I said, we are creatures of habit. Mixing on my DAW makes everything in my studio available for use during mixing. If an engineer is a Pro Tools user, he is going to mix on Pro Tools. If he is a Cubase user, he is going to mix on Cubase.
The point is, BIAB with Real Tracks and Real Drums have evolved into a very commercially usable software. The ability to "sync" with existing set up is a must if BIAB is going to be embraced in the commercial environment.
I am very excited that guitar Real Tracks have Direct Input recording in 2012. This gives studio owners more creative choices. Now I can use the various guitar effects modules and patches I have. After I have the DI track in my DAW, I can digitally insert my Digi Tech multi effects pedal during mix ! VERY COOL !
When mixing, there is a reason why I have 16 stereo multi-effects and dynamics on each channel available. Not to mention some effects units from Lexicon, TC Electronics, Roland etc.
Its time for BIAB to come out of the closet and join the rest of the audio world.
Ed
I so agree with you o wise-one Yoder 
Let me add one word that should be shouted from the rooftops - EXPERIMENTATION !!!!!!!!
The whole point of using software to create music is that it is meant to aid experimentation. We can tweak stuff.
As you rightly say, BIAB is now something that can really help the music producer , arranger or person working on ideas in a fluid fashion.
Even if one is only using BIAB to try out chord change and style ideas - and then intends to replace it all with real session musicians or hand-crafted MIDI tracks in a "proper" DAW - BIAB can be great to try out ideas.
But since one cannot work on melodic MIDI parts easily inside BIAB ( at least not on the MAC - and the MAC is pretty much de rigeur in most studio setups )
and since RealBand is a different beast, and actually makes it HARDER to quickly try out different arrangement ideas than BIAB does,
this really does beg for a means to SYNC BIAB to a sequencer, and THAT way round - with BIAB being a SLAVE and not just master.
Incidentally - with the demise of BANDSTAND, I have finally found a viable solution that uses the old NI Bandstand sample set along with NI Kontakt.
For this one needs to have at least 8GB of RAM - and 16GB would be better.
IFor this you need to use the ABLETON 64 bit beta. Also to be running OSX Lion or upwards. The 64 bit mode of Logic will not work. ( There is an issue with saving such large Kontakt Multis. )
What I do is create 5 * Kontakt 127 instrument banks, one for each of the five MIDI channels that BIAB sends MIDI on.
Then into four of the banks I put the 127 BANDSTAND GM Kontakt instruments - in GM PC order of course. And Into one bank i put the 8 or so GM Drum kits and assign this to channel 10.
Now of course if you have better grand pianos etc in your Kontakt sample library than the ones that come with BANDSTAND all the better. I for example use the Grand Piano that comes with Kontakt 5.
Set each instrument bank to receive from the appropriate MIDI channel and then assign each bank to a seperate set of stereo outs.
In ableton you then need to configure a single track for the Kontakt plugin. Add five separate MIDI tracks to send MIDI to the master Kontakt track. Also record enable all five MIDI tracks so they receive MIDI from the virtual BIAB MIDI outputs.
Doing all this replicates some if not all of the true GM2 functionality of the great BANDSTAND.
Im tempted to buy the new Steinberg Halion Sonic but it seems to me this ain't quite there yet.
FINALLY -
I really wish we could have a basic Piano Roll style editor feature in BIAB for the Mac - just for ONE track - the melody. So we can easily work on developing a tune - the melody ALONGSIDE ones ideas for the chord changes.
And NO - i do NOT want to have to switch to RealBand just to do this simple thing.
Last edited by nonchai; 09/04/12 05:44 AM.
MacOS Sequoia, M4 Pro Mac Mini , 64GB RAM 512GB SSD ,
BIAB, Cubase, Ableton, Logic Pro, SCALER 3, GigLad, AnyTune, Synthesizer V Pro,Vienna Ensemble Pro, Audiofuse, Fractal FM3, KOMPLETE 15, StreamDeck, iReal Pro
White beard, beer belly, bald patch
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Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows Special Offers End Tomorrow (January 15th, 2026) at 11:59 PM PST!
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