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Gee Ian, you could retune the guitar between sets and plug the other ear. LOL gawl I'm funny.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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A pox on yer hearing aid batteries, my friend.  Ian
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OK, so after all this talk about pitch correction, I fired up V-Vocal in Sonar to see what this was all about (again). OMG! Am I that far off the pitch? I realize that my voice wavers close to the pitch -- but does it sound as bad as it looks??? The opening clip from A Little Bit of Loving looks like this:  OK, what do you do with that???? "...don't make me..." is stuck between B and C -- well, most everything seems to be stuck between worlds. OK, so here is a MP3 of the original wave form you see above and then the same clip with quick v-vocal edits added in. The v-vocal part starts at around 8 seconds. http://www.jkt9000.com/html/orig_then_v_vocal_clips.mp3Well, what does all this mean? Kevin
Last edited by Kemmrich; 01/17/12 05:47 PM.
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Hi Kevin,
My wife tells me that I'm deaf, but I can't hear any appreciable difference between the two phrases, even though the graft evidently says otherwise.
Don S.
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I hear the pitch difference in the two. I don't hear any song behind it to make any judgement though. Even then it would just be my opinion.  If you don't hear the difference, listen to just the first one a few times, let it get embedded in your memory .. then let it play thru the second one. The first 'make' (She don't make) stands out to me, may even be tuning high. Dunno without the music behind it. Was it a B or a C? Second one sounds pushed up to a C.
Last edited by rharv; 01/17/12 05:38 PM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Quote:
Well, what does all this mean?
Kevin
I do this all the time. Record and listen, sounds OK to me then I run through Melodyn and I "see" certain notes which are a half step flat or sharp, so I fix them. Play it back and I'll be darn'ed it sounds a little better. YOu have to really study the music and listen in order to hear anhalf step or less.
In the recording you provided I thought the first time through was a little flat so things got pulled up to a bit. Like Rharv said without the accompaniment we can't really know if it fits the music better. But listen and look until you can hear the difference. It will help you in the long run with your vocals - using Meldodyne and both hearing and seeing the pitch did for me.
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The second one definitely pushes "make" up to the C, which makes sense since it's an A-minor chord. The first one isn't quite there (which you knew).
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2025/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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The link to the whole song (unfixed) is in the post above (and here it is again: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=1144009&songID=11352211 ). I think I over corrected the example above. Even though it is off, It does waver around the note. Someone who I trust said that since I don't hold notes out too long (talk more than sing -- ha, ha), It is OK as is. I think I will experiment, though. Chances are that for awhile I will make it worse until I learn the tool. I will do all the correction on a 2nd track, so I can always go home again. Thanks for the listen and comments. In the end, I am with Pat on this one. Since I am not a "performer", I need to do what I can to make the song better in a recorded mode. I have performed this song at an open mic and it goes along just fine. For a recording, though, I don't want to distract folks from the song with bad pitches. I did hear someone mention that you can auto-tune the whole track and then use that as a scratch and sing along to improve your pitch. Maybe I'll try that one day. Thanks for the ears! Kevin
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Quote:
The second one definitely pushes "make" up to the C, which makes sense since it's an A-minor chord. The first one isn't quite there (which you knew).
Theoretically yes, but the B (being the 9th) may be the desired note .. could be that he needs to tune it down to B (instead of up to C). His ears need to decide, depending on the intended pitch and performance.
Tuning does what you tell it to do
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Well I downloaded demos for each of the 3 vocal plugins to see if they work in RealBand.
Autotune, Nectar and Melodyne all showed up and loaded into my VST plugin list. I was able to evoke the plugin and hear real time changes to the audio, which is what I hoped for.
I was most disappointed with Nectar (for my puroposes). It works a lot like Ozone, having a whole integrated set of enhancements that can be used to change the sound of the vocals. I found it to be confusing, MUCH more likely to add unwanted sounds to the track, and the pitch editing was not intuitive to me unless you just let it automate the process (which isn't what I want... I want control to make only the changes I want, not the changes the software thinks I want. Also, Nectar didn't have a way to fix timing issues, which is the MAIN problem I'm hoping to solve.
Autotune's interface is pretty slick; but of the three,I could hear the least change to the track no matter how dramatically I changed the parameters.
All three product videos show audio being edited with blobs that look like MIDI, but only in Melodyne did the blobs occur without having to turn them on. And it wasn't intuitive to me how to turn on the blobs in the other two VSTs
So far, for my needs, the VST version of Melodyne assistant looks most useful. For those who use DAWs with rewire support, it also comes with a rewire plugin; but apparently that isn't supported yet in RB... but the VST *IS* supported, and that's all I needed to know!
Autotune and Nectar come with a 9 day trial, wherea Melodyne allows 30 days. More info after the 30 day trial ends
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I don't know Kevin. I took a listen to both version, is there a difference...maybe...some....slight. In the end though, I'm a techno-junkie, always have been. That being said, IMHO I'm starting to realize that these days there are so many technical and analytical tools readily available that we get bogged down in analytics and lose the creative artist approach. Happens to me all the time. I find that the further I get sucked into analysis the less fun I have. Do I still do it....absolutely...but its making me neurotic.
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2025, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
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I just tried GSnap, a freeware pitch correction tool. It is compatible with BiaB, and seemed to work well using the scale mode. I didn't try the midi mode yet.
I applied the pitch correction plugin to several vocal tracks I've recorded and everything worked as advertised. I was happy to see that except for some very minor correction I was basically in tune on all the tracks I tried. Too bad my voice is somewhat plain. I'm still searching for that elusive 'talent' plugin.
BiaB 2013 b366, RB 2013 b4, WinXP Pro SP3, Toshiba M70, 1.8GHz 2GB RAM 100GB HD. Focusrite Saffire 6 USB, Ketron SD2. BiaB Wiki
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OK, I downloaded demos for Nectar, Autotune and Melodyne.
In Sonar all 3 will read the track into the plugin where it can be tweaked. In RealBand, all 3 seem to bog down in the stage of importing the track into the plugin for processing.
I would really like to have the ability to process audio without leaving the RB environment. If anybody is successfully doing this, please contact me
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It can be addictive and again you never absolutely apprentice to sing. Work on your chops. Get a articulation coach. Anything!Using RTs and such is one affair but to Dr. your articulation or arena to the point that you're assuming off something you can't do & calling it you is array of weird. JMHO. I'm not absolutely that apprehensive but aggravating to be better.
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I sent an email to Celemony asking if there was anything they could do to make melodyne work as a plugin in RealBand. Here's the reply: Quote:
Dear Pat,
Thank you for your email. The problem here is indeed the product you try to use Melodyne as a plugin in. The currently tested and supported products for our latest plugin versions are:
http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=host_comp
A stand-alone version gets installed anyway (so is part of the package). I honestly do not see this PGMusic product supported from our end anytime soon, as we currently do not have the manpower to expand the list of supported products (as every supported DAW requires a tremendous amount of work in terms of beta-testing, software engineering, etc.).
Best wishes,
Jörg Hüttner
I'll probably buy it anyway and use it in Sonar, but DANG... I wanted to have a modular system that would let me customize my music with plugins that never force me to leave my preferred DAW environment.
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Hi Pat,
I've just looked at some Youtube clips on Melodyne. It's very impressive! Certainly makes tuning and re-pitching a very simple process. You've got me thinking that I should look at it, too.
Thanks for all the above information,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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Quote:
Hi Pat,
I've just looked at some Youtube clips on Melodyne. It's very impressive! Certainly makes tuning and re-pitching a very simple process. You've got me thinking that I should look at it, too.
Thanks for all the above information,
Noel
Hi Noel! great to hear from you again!
For the past few days I've been downloading and experimenting with every pitch/timing correction plugin I can find. The only one I truly covet is Melodyne, but ironically it's the one that doesn't work as a plugin in RB. But, I'll cope.
If you get the Editor version with DNA (the ability to edit tracks with more than one note playing at the same time) the potential use in RealBand starts to get interesting. You could literally move notes in a passage generated by a real track and produce a melody!
MY main reason for wanting it is because I tend to play many tracks in a song myself. Whereas in a band of real people my timing would be approximately as imperfect as theirs, when I play alongside instruments with perfect timing, my um... shall we say "syncopation" ? (yeah, that's the ticket...) my timing sounds noticeably different. OK, worse. I said it out loud. 
Melodyne provides a VERY easy way to clean up that sort of thing... it's like a lint brush for music. No matter how good a tux you may have, it will look better if you remove the tiny almost unnoticeable bits of lint before wearing it.
Keep us posted if you decide to get it (or something else)
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speaking of pitch software, here's a no-brainer deal for Pitch Craft http://www.audiomidi.com/Products/bis_pitchcraft_nb/$20 bucks. Plus, there's a limited time download to see if you like it.
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Pat,
I have found if one loves to sing, they should try a karaoke type of site that allows feedback. Singing on a semi-daily basis and being critiqued DOES help us to understand what other people are hearing in our voices.
I have used Singsnap for a few years now and it has helped my tone and pitch immensely. I have also listened to people who appeared to be tone deaf actually sing on key and in pitch after a few months of singing there. It does work for most people, singer or not. I have witnessed it myself with a few close friends there.
Pitch correction should only be used as a last resort, IMO. Practice, practice, practice is GREAT advice for us wannabe singers.
Trax
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